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J00f's "Global Trance Grooves" changes name / Solarstone - let's move on from 1999
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| Swamper |
:wtf: I saw two posts recently - one from J00f and another from Solarstone that got me thinking -- what is it about the current "state of trance" that has its reputation as "dirty word" worse than ever? I can write a bit about this but I don't want to steer the convo and want to see where the MD convo goes first.
Relevant FB posts linked below and put the text in here so you can quote from it easier
j00f:
"This has been one of the most difficult blogs for me to write, along with one of the most difficult decisions in my career to make. In todays environment, if you dare to mention the word Trance (club Trance, not Psy Trance), it’s like poking a bee hive of activity that generally heads in a negative direction by the Trance police trying to dictate what Trance should be. I’m tentatively and carefully navigating my next few words.
I’ve dedicated and invested most of my career to the Trance scene, though in my heart I still play what I perceive as my personal take on Trance, over the past decade (and more) the genre has evolved and being translated as something very different with todays generation. Having the word/genre Trance in my current radio show is causing confusion to the next generation that I’ve connected with. Time and time again, fans, producers, DJ’s from the next generation ask me why the show is called Global Trance Grooves, when there’s not much Trance in the show, yet to the older generation I’m playing underground Trance. I think this sums things up how the genre has changed and why I’ve come to the decision to end Global Trance Grooves on the 200th edition next week after a marathon 16 year run. Don’t worry it’s not the end, it’s a new beginning and a new show will be born.
I’m a DJ that plays many scenes and won’t be restricted by genre rules, I also often play extended long sets that takes me across those multiple genres. Fans give me the tag ‘The JOOF sound’ because its impossible to place me in one genre pot, though everything I touch will always have a hypnotic feel. Thats the JOOF sound and very adapt that JOOF Radio will be born.
Though this maybe perceived as me taking a step away from Trance, it’s actually a liberating feeling allowing me to take a step back closer the original ethos of Trance without any confusion. I was fortunate to be an active professional DJ at the time when Trance was born in the early 90’s, I fell in love with Trance as it felt like music from the future, producers embracing technology and braking all the rules of traditional arrangements and formats making sounds that transported you to outer space, hence why the common connection to space themes running throughout the 90’s within the Trance world. You can still see that space connection with JOOF today.
This exact same world I remember is currently being reborn, but in other places. Taking away any genre restrictions allows me once again to embrace it and repeat history of playing my part in creating something original off the back of this with a little more power, more energy, more darkness, more melodies. It’s the only way to push something forward and once again live in that futuristic world, embrace technology with no restrictions.
I’ll always say Trance offers a culture like nothing else on this planet, a spiritual connection of like minded music people. It’s a lot more than just music. Once again I clarify this decision is not a step away, but a step closer; it maybe not Trance as you know it today, but Trance as it was intended.
JOOF Radio. December 2019."
Rich/Solarstone:
"Hey guys, thought I'd better comment on this as it's got a little heated in here! We post these 'commentary' things to get people talking, but sometimes when a quote is used - it needs to be considered in context.
This one, for example, is taken from an interview I did where the interviewer brought up the issue of many people in the media saying 'trance is dead' and my opinion about it- you guys know that I have been fighting against that (wrong) statement for years and years. My answer to the question was quite extensive - and the message I was trying to convey is that people who thing that trance began and ended in 1999 need to be educated. Of course 'old school' trance was great - man - I was there in the middle of it - it was my whole life and still is. The point I was making was that instead of obsessing over the past and going on and on about how 'it was better in 1999' - people should look at what is happening now, how healthy the trance scene is - the scene you and I all love and are fiercely protective of! People change and grow older and their musical tastes change - and to many people 1999 is special because they discovered trance then and it shaped their lives then - meeting a loved on or friends at parties, tracks that meant so much to them and remind them of those good times - when people say 'trance was better in 1999' what they are really saying is 'i loved trance then but now my life has changed and I have other interests'.
We don't set out to post inflammatory things, we just want to get people talking on the Pure Trance page - keep the conversation going. In retrospect (great song title) perhaps when we post 'quotes' we should also post the article / interview etc. from where the quote was sourced - to avoid things being taken out of context... but also we all know there are keyboard warriors out there who don't take the time to consider 'context' and just want to have a fight. The Pure Trance movement is and has always been a positive one - I'm not interested in negativity in the trance scene as it is destructive and achieves nothing. Hence why we have never said 'pure trance is better' than other types of music - there is a misconception out there that 'pure' fans are elitist - that's the opposite of what I want for the scene - it should be inclusive - there's room for everything - I just think that - as quoted on my t-shirts - you should 'Be proud of what makes you feel good - know your own mind'. So, to sum up - I loved trance in 1999 - and in 1989 actually - and in 2009 and in 2019, but it's important to focus on now and the future rather than look backwards all the time. Forward Forever ;)
Rich (Solarstone)."
Sooooooo, what is it about the current "state of trance" that has its reputation as a "dirty word" worse than ever?
DON'T QUOTE THIS WHOLE POST IN REPLIES- take the relevant sections you want please and try to stay on topic, thanks. |
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| AlphaStarred |
| Isn't Trance dead? I don't know why J00f doesn't just call the music that he spins what it is - Progressive. |
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| Sykonee |
| Trance remains a dirty word because there are still many producers who will make a trance record but go out of their way to call it anything but trance. Small wonder folks were a little shocked when Kulør released that compilation last year and actually owned its inherent trancey vibe. |
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| refuge |
| Real trance, or Neotrance is alive and well in the Acid and Techno scenes aligned with the original ethos of the genre, as well as many Progressive and Psy artists. Several modern trance DJs diverged so far away from the original ethos of trance and picked up so many cheesy EDM influences along the way, selling out in my opinion, or adapting to the new trends, to stay relevant, to pay the bills, it hasn't sounded like original trance in over a decade with the exception of a few dedicated artists, such as Simon Berry, Oliver Lieb, Airwave, and JOOF. I'm looking forward to his rebranding if it frees up his creativity and allows him to expand as DJ and producer, to do various genre mixes. I agree with AlphaStarred on how JOOF has kind of been more Progressive Psy and Full On to me than classic trance. Trance always been a genre that separates, people either love or hate, even during the height of its popularity. When it shined the most to me was in the first 15 years 1989 - 2004, especially in the beginning, when there was a lot of social repression in Germany, that fire, that angry, that passion to overcome barriers, the freshness, the unknown, that "punk" vibe. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
I remember telling John six years ago that he should stop using the word "trance" to describe his sound because it was a sinking ship with negative connotations in every other scene.
This is becoming a boring conversation really. How many times can we say something is and dead? I think the larger world sees "trance" in much the same way they do UK rave or big beat: a phase that lasted a few years with a very distinctive and nostalgic sound. You might get new tracks doing a throwback or reference to that sound, but as a scene it's an irrelevance. |
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| Sand Leaper |
Like SYS-J said, haven't we been mulling over this particular schism in the scene for a long time already? Either way, I've always had a handful of ideas regarding the topic.
| quote: | Originally posted by Sykonee
Trance remains a dirty word because there are still many producers who will make a trance record but go out of their way to call it anything but trance. Small wonder folks were a little shocked when Kulør released that compilation last year and actually owned its inherent trancey vibe. |
Yup, Rune Bagge and the other CPH-based guys from Kulør are quite busy rehabing trance into a more grassroots movement, away from the techno hype machine. The guys at Uteklubb are doing the same thing in Oslo. It dovetails nicely with the overall trend in techno to employ more old ideas in the creative output again and the recent increase in average dancefloor BPM.
The problem is that you cannot be a major league player like J00f and Solarstone and at the same time resist permanent genre designation (and all the musical cliches that come with it). Resisting it is more or less marketing suicide within a capitalist market for electronic music, as you no longer have a clearly defined musical brand to market or a specific niche audience to market yourself to. With the advent of techno commodification and the removal of its status as counter culture, there is precious little room to carve out an existence as a DJ chiefly on your own merit, transcending genre boundaries. You are a "trance DJ". People go to the "house night". Berghain is the "techno club of all techno clubs" in Berlin, etc. etc. Someone like Ben UFO could perhaps be viewed as an exception to this rule, but I'd argue that even he has both feet planted on the Resident Advisor/Dekmantel intersection for house and techno.
Almost everything wihin dance music for the past two decades+ forces you towards the same permanent dilemma that J00f has been stuck in for years: stay in your lane, or suffer the consequences of a thorougly compartmentalized fanbase that does not accept straying from the creative path you originally carved for yourself. I'm worried that it's too late for the veterans to make any radical changes in this regard. People like the guys at Kulør, however, can. It all comes down to the litmus test that is buckets of attention and money being shoveled in your direction, once your particular concept of electronic music takes off. Are you willing to sacrifice a several thousand euro paycheck in order to not be musically pigeonholed? |
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| SYSTEM-J |
I'm not sure I quite agree with that line of reasoning. I see less interest in genre pigeonholing when it comes to marketing, not more. What pigeonhole is Solomon in? Or Dixon? Or The Black Madonna? Or Midland? Most bios and event blurbs now just talk generally about "house and techno". You might pull out some tags that fit for these guys, but you won't find any of their PR pinned to a specific genre.
The problem is that trance specifically has become so utterly segregated from all credible genres of club music. If a big trance DJ decides to rebrand as a techno DJ in 2019, which techno promoter is going to be interested in booking them? |
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| SYSTEM-J |
As an example of what I mean above, here is the line up for a party Renaissance are doing in Mexico that just flashed up on my Facebook feed. I'd be interested to hear which compartmentalised lane this list of names could be safely filed under:
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| Sand Leaper |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
I'm not sure I quite agree with that line of reasoning. I see less interest in genre pigeonholing when it comes to marketing, not more. What pigeonhole is Solomon in? Or Dixon? Or The Black Madonna? Or Midland? Most bios and event blurbs now just talk generally about "house and techno". You might pull out some tags that fit for these guys, but you won't find any of their PR pinned to a specific genre.
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I can't say I see the big problem with associating these names with house and/or techno. The lines between them might be a bit more or less blurry depending on which DJ you pick, but there is certainly a pretty solid genre expectation present there that draws in a specific crowd. If Solomun would start playing techno like, say, Dax J at Pacha, he'd be in trouble with the dancefloor pretty quick. That's not what they expect to hear from him. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sand Leaper
I can't say I see the big problem with associating these names with house and/or techno. The lines between them might be a bit more or less blurry depending on which DJ you pick, but there is certainly a pretty solid genre expectation present there that draws in a specific crowd. If Solomun would start playing techno like, say, Dax J at Pacha, he'd be in trouble with the dancefloor pretty quick. That's not what they expect to hear from him. |
A few things to unpack here.
Obviously a DJ playing completely the wrong sound at the wrong club will piss off a crowd. I've seen Patrice Baumel play very melodic and fluffy to an Anjunadeep crowd and then play Ostgut Ton releases at Fabric. Doesn't mean the DJ is pigeonholed. I'm sure Solomon has similar strings to his bow.
Also, most DJs who aren't Ben UFO style selectors have a certain core sound people expect from them, but that in itself is not equatable with being marketed beneath a clear cut genre moniker. Solomon is not marketed to any specific genre or scene, which is your contention above. He's marketed as Solomon. And while I'm no great fan of him, I've heard him throw in some pretty leftfield selections - electronic pop mixed in with club tunes, and so on. |
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| Swamper |
| quote: | Originally posted by refuge
Several modern trance DJs diverged so far away from the original ethos of trance and picked up so many cheesy EDM influences along the way, selling out in my opinion, or adapting to the new trends, to stay relevant, to pay the bills, it hasn't sounded like original trance in over a decade with the exception of a few dedicated artists, such as Simon Berry, Oliver Lieb, Airwave, and JOOF. |
I agree with this. On that end, I will say that Armin catches a lot of flak for things but he has had to navigate the EDM rise and also figure out how to appeal to a younger audience - especially at main stage festivals. The problem, however, is that ASOT, with "Trance" in the name, has gradually become a strange Trance-poppish-EDMish hybrid. If you're not familiar with older Trance and instead hear that sound now, for the first time, it is what you associate with Trance.
| quote: | Originally posted by Sand Leaper
The problem is that you cannot be a major league player like J00f and Solarstone and at the same time resist permanent genre designation (and all the musical cliches that come with it). Resisting it is more or less marketing suicide within a capitalist market for electronic music, as you no longer have a clearly defined musical brand to market or a specific niche audience to market yourself to. With the advent of techno commodification and the removal of its status as counter culture, there is precious little room to carve out an existence as a DJ chiefly on your own merit, transcending genre boundaries. You are a "trance DJ". People go to the "house night". Berghain is the "techno club of all techno clubs" in Berlin, etc. etc. Someone like Ben UFO could perhaps be viewed as an exception to this rule, but I'd argue that even he has both feet planted on the Resident Advisor/Dekmantel intersection for house and techno. |
I call this the "Trance identity crisis" -- you rarely, if ever, hear Techno fans say that they went to a Techno party and their DJs weren't playing Techno ...whereas, some of the names that made themselves big with Trance in the late-noughts/early 00's have been riding off that popularity playing something MUCH different yet still manage to pin the "Trance" label to that sound. The challenge becomes in the definition of what is a progression/advancement of the genre - in terms of the sound it encapsulates - and what is something entirely different being mislabeled. I've always been against 'genre whores', even when I started this forum, "Music Discussion" was always labelled for being about ALL forms of electronic music and not just Trance. |
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| Sand Leaper |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Obviously a DJ playing completely the wrong sound at the wrong club will piss off a crowd.
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There you go. The idea of a "wrong sound" is exactly what I'm talking about. My argument is that our idea of a "wrong sound" at a club has been expanded radically, since DJs are all marketing themselves along specific stylistic lines (stylistic lines that very often form genre differences), whether explicitly expressed in concrete PR activity or not. This is why Armin van Buuren says that he plays tunes that are "for the crowd". This is why DJs are booked for and explicitly marketed as playing a set with a specific genre (since this is not the genre the audience knows them for). This is why techno event marketing takes on radically different aesthetics depending on the sonic profile of the artists that are booked, and so on.
Clearly, this phenomenon is a necessary measure to effectively navigate the market for electronic music. Sadly, DJs and producers are now feeling increasingly boxed in by it. This is particularly restrictive and brutal for trance, for the reasons you just mentioned. |
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