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Bassline matching (NOT beat-matching), and key arrangement
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| Great Outdoors |
I did a demo tape and my DJ friend says it sucks. Beatmatching was not a problem, it seems, but apparantly I badly need improving on both of the above 2 mentioned skills.
According to him, incoming track bassline structure has to be similiar to the outgoing track bassline structure for the mix to be smooth. I guess what he means is that you probably can't mix in a Oliver Lieb bassline and trying to overlap that with a James Holden one. Well it sounds really logical, of course, but I probably need more details.. how do I distinguish them under club conditions, headphones on and all!? Most track basslines sound different to me anyway.. how important IS this distinction anyway?
He also told me key arrangement is vital to the progression of a set, which I fully appreciate. I never learnt music formally when I was young.. but I believe I can handle it. How important is this skill, and how do you guys start developing the knack for it?
I hope I'm asking valid questions here, and I hope I can get some constructive comments, because his comments are affecting me pretty badly and I've thought about giving all this up. Help.. |
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| DJ_Shockwav |
how long have you been djing?
just a question, cause these things take time
and i learn new things every day
anywho...
one thing you have to learn before heading out to play is how to put a set together
a good dj knows what track to play next and how to make that track mix into the next one
set flow is a crucial thing IMO
now we get into once again, what kind of set are you playing?
opening
headlining
or closing
the closing is kind of like the opening, but in reverse
you want to play tracks that flow into each other nicely
don't go from van dyk to scot project...
i like to look at songs in terms of energy
i play my songs with less energy at the start and slowly start to weave my web of music to a peak of energy then bring it down for a bit, then the last few tracks bring in the energy again
a good dj once told me
"look at your set as if you want to tell a story, then use your tracks to develop a story with a begining, conflict/buildup, a climax, then the conclusion" |
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| Alccode |
just some advice. you don't need a Ph.D in musical composition to mix properly.
with experience, you will be able to tell what sounds right and what doesn't go together.
don't be fooled by people who are like, "well, I'm musically trained, you're doing this wrong, blah blah you have a long way to go, kid."
it's actually not that hard. you just have to develop an ear for it, which comes with time. go with your gut feeling.
happy mixing! |
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| DjJade |
i think there is gonna be someone who finds a problem in almost everythig you do. if you said you like your set... then thats all that matters. that set was for you, for your enjoyment not this other person. regardless of whether he may be right or worng, its still your set and your perception of what sounds good will evolve. i havent mixed for long but the first set that i recorded [or tried to] sounded really good at the time but now...it it just sounds like crap.
just keep listening to different people and how they put their sets together. then you can take what you like, modify, incoorporate...whatever with the different techniques that different djs use. i think after that youll find your style and elaborate on that. thats what i did atleast. i dont have anyone really to listen and tell me what im doing wrong and i dont think you need that. you can improve on your own in your own way : ) |
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| Project T |
| are u using the bass eq, if your not, your friend might have a good point lol |
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| Devbert |
Simply one sentence is enough.
"Some tracks mix well together and others don't." |
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| dj_inferno |
| I used to have the same problem...then I started noticing how songs would normally have at least 32 beatz before the bassline kicked in...so I started timing my bass line drops...see how many drum beats there are before the b-line comes in...then see how u can mix that in so that it sounds smoother... |
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| Great Outdoors |
Thanks for all your input, guys.. I've been DJ-ing for a little over a year now and I've never had the experience of playing out (well this December I might). I totally appreciate the theory of matching keys; I guess I just need more time and practise to get it right.
Does the kind of genre you play make a difference? For instance, I've a friend who tells me uplifting trance DJs (he cited Tiesto) don't really need to care about key structure when piecing a set together.. most of the time they will just bang it in and put down whichever record they think it's appropriate at the time, ************ of key and nature of the bassline. While more progressive DJs will really have to be careful about basslines that sound too different and synths and keys that are too dramatic between the two. How true do you guys think that claim is?
At the end of the day, I personally feel that in club conditions, when everyone's just hyped up and everything (including you), worrying over basslines that might clash and key structures that might not work out is a tad lame.. just put that record down and mix it in! That should be what DJ-ing is about, isn't it.. I mean having to worry about all the specifics of music and theoretical bull about what works and what doesn't just takes the fun right out of DJ-ing for me.. |
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| a-aplz |
| quote: | Originally posted by Devbert
Simply one sentence is enough.
"Some tracks mix well together and others don't." |
So true. :D |
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| Dj Flesch |
Your friend is right. You can't mix any two bass beats together and have them sound good. When you gave an example of two people, that means nothing unless all of the tracks they write use the same exact sample for the bass beat.
Think of it this way. Not all bass beats sound the same. This is because some are a very low frequency, some are much higher, some are very intense and loud and others are softer. If you mix from a track that has a very strong bass beat to one that has a very soft bass beat, it will be very noticable in your mix. This isn't really something that you can easily control with your eqs, though you can touch it up to an extent. You'll have to increase the bass on your quiet track while you make sure that you're not overloading it either. This is why you can only correct it a little bit (because of overloading). Not only that, messing with the eqs may make the track sound a little akward too.
You also have to remember that the range of frequency of a bass beat is important too. Some beats may go from 30Hz to 65Hz, while others 40Hz to 45Hz. When you mix those two tracks together, the second track will mix in okay, but you'll notice a decrease in bass power. If you mix in the 40Hz-45Hz first then the 30-60Hz, you will notice an increase in bass power. Also, notice that those ranges overlap. Some may be 70-95Hz and sound tinny compared to the lower frequencies.
You don't need to know the ranges in numbers, you should be able to tell just by listening to it and knowing your music well. Part of picking out good tracks for a demo is making sure your tracks mix well together. Listen to your demo critically (or if you provide me download access, I will critically analize your mix) and then listen to other djs sets. Not the live, not-so-good quality mixes, but the good quality mixes. Listen to how each track flows so well together and how there seems to be a theme going between each track and the set overall. You'll notice on really good sets, it is one long flowing track that changes slowly, not a set that is all over the place with different generes, vastly different energies etc.
You friend was right to a degree with saying that with uplifting trance like Tiesto mixes, it matters LESS, but still matters quite a bit if you are mixing in the same bass beats and same key. Changing key is very noticable, and if you are a good dj, then you can make a good transition (not just beat matching) between two tracks that are too different to just blend together (like a beginner's transition).
Progressive sets are much slower and the music doesn't change as much, so it makes sense that you cannot make huge changes without people noticing.
Anyway, I can be reached on AIM: djflesch2 ICQ: 218587 EMAIL: [email protected] if you are interested in my critiquing your mix. If you could post it here that would be best so that many people can listen and comment. I've done several extensive critiques on this board such as this link . It's at the very end. I enjoy very much listening to mixes and trying to help other djs with what I have learned too. It also helps me learn :) |
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| DjJade |
| quote: | Originally posted by Great Outdoors
I've a friend who tells me uplifting trance DJs (he cited Tiesto) don't really need to care about key structure when piecing a set together.. most of the time they will just bang it in and put down whichever record they think it's appropriate at the time, ************ of key and nature of the bassline. While more progressive DJs will really have to be careful about basslines that sound too different and synths and keys that are too dramatic between the two. How true do you guys think that claim is?
That should be what DJ-ing is about, isn't it.. I mean having to worry about all the specifics of music and theoretical bull about what works and what doesn't just takes the fun right out of DJ-ing for me.. |
i think thats totally wrong about uplifting trance... its wrong about any song with a melody or with a key... even drum and bass. as much as i love tiesto, i like him for who he is and the songs he picks...not necessarily how he mixes all the time ebcause some times he puts two songs together whose harmonics become something odd. personally i would never neglect that.
as for what djing is all about... i am a very musical person and i do worry about keys and basslines becuase thats what i have always listened for and admired in a dj. its just my style. if you think that it takes the fun out of djing then dont do it becuase its all about fun. i guess its what style is all about. im very technical when i mix so i think its fun to focus on that. some people may agree and others my not but when it comes down to it, the most important thing is whether you are enjoying it or not. im sure you have plenty of other things to focus on that makes mixing more enjoyable for you rather than key structure and bass line : )
what do you spin btw? |
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| Great Outdoors |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dj Flesch
Your friend is right. You can't mix any two bass beats together and have them sound good. When you gave an example of two people, that means nothing unless all of the tracks they write use the same exact sample for the bass beat.
Think of it this way. Not all bass beats sound the same. This is because some are a very low frequency, some are much higher, some are very intense and loud and others are softer. If you mix from a track that has a very strong bass beat to one that has a very soft bass beat, it will be very noticable in your mix. This isn't really something that you can easily control with your eqs, though you can touch it up to an extent. You'll have to increase the bass on your quiet track while you make sure that you're not overloading it either. This is why you can only correct it a little bit (because of overloading). Not only that, messing with the eqs may make the track sound a little akward too.
You also have to remember that the range of frequency of a bass beat is important too. Some beats may go from 30Hz to 65Hz, while others 40Hz to 45Hz. When you mix those two tracks together, the second track will mix in okay, but you'll notice a decrease in bass power. If you mix in the 40Hz-45Hz first then the 30-60Hz, you will notice an increase in bass power. Also, notice that those ranges overlap. Some may be 70-95Hz and sound tinny compared to the lower frequencies.
You don't need to know the ranges in numbers, you should be able to tell just by listening to it and knowing your music well. Part of picking out good tracks for a demo is making sure your tracks mix well together. Listen to your demo critically (or if you provide me download access, I will critically analize your mix) and then listen to other djs sets. Not the live, not-so-good quality mixes, but the good quality mixes. Listen to how each track flows so well together and how there seems to be a theme going between each track and the set overall. You'll notice on really good sets, it is one long flowing track that changes slowly, not a set that is all over the place with different generes, vastly different energies etc.
You friend was right to a degree with saying that with uplifting trance like Tiesto mixes, it matters LESS, but still matters quite a bit if you are mixing in the same bass beats and same key. Changing key is very noticable, and if you are a good dj, then you can make a good transition (not just beat matching) between two tracks that are too different to just blend together (like a beginner's transition).
Progressive sets are much slower and the music doesn't change as much, so it makes sense that you cannot make huge changes without people noticing.
Anyway, I can be reached on AIM: djflesch2 ICQ: 218587 EMAIL: [email protected] if you are interested in my critiquing your mix. If you could post it here that would be best so that many people can listen and comment. I've done several extensive critiques on this board such as this link . It's at the very end. I enjoy very much listening to mixes and trying to help other djs with what I have learned too. It also helps me learn :) |
Hi DJ Flesch, thanks so much for your input! I spin a mixture of progressive house, progressive trance and trance (normally in that order), but my musical style is slightly tilted toward the first two. Looking forward to seeing you in ICQ, respects! |
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