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Trance is simple (pg. 5)
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| Nadi |
Wow, this thread is almost funny.
First of all I agree with the original post, the structure of most trance tracks are relativly simple. but most genres are just as simple on the musical theory level.
I agree with what branmuffin and everyone else said, the complexity of the music doesn't mean a damn thing, its the feeling you get from it, and how its attained doesnt matter either.
Classical music, is also very simple in many ways, so is hip-hop, so is rock, so is trance. None of that matters though, because thats not why people listen to music. Really who gives a where the emotion comes from, its not what counts.
Lastly, I'm getting so ing sick and tired of every thread turning into a thread that either bashes other genres, or bashes some big dj, so can we all just cut that completly? |
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| Rakoon |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Nuclear
Cute raccoon rakoon. I've got two of those TY stuffed ones. ^.^ |
Hehe, yeah I think theres only 2 different raccoons from Ty. Raccoons are a rather underrated animal me thinks :tongue2 |
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| trance[]control-fan |
| i say trance is simple in terms of making it,also you still need a good imagination to make a wicked trance track..but you still needs the skills to operate keyboard synths and samples and stuff...i say the most complex songs are classical music and movie soundtracks from John Williams, Danny Elfman etc.. |
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| cheesenip |
I think some of you people are missing the whole point when you say "You try making a song like (song name)". He wasn't saying whether a song is hard to make or not.
And yes, I am more of a can of classical music than any other genre. It always has, and it always will be. |
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| branmuffin |
Well, i'm back, and after another 20 or so responses, most completely off
topic, i'm going to simply skip most of them since they are irrelivant.
In general, most people here seem to be missing my whole point entirely. I
often see people say that "trance is intelligent" or "trance is complex", and
it isn't. Forgive me for not doing what I should have done at the beginning of
the argument, but at this point i'm going to define "complex" and
"intelligent".
The first one is easy, complex from this point forward means that an individual
piece of music has individual parts repeated many times without a significant
amount of change. The amount of musical techniques is also taken into account.
It can also refer to the amount of instruments as well, but as i'll show later,
you can have a complex piece of music with merely one instrument (piano).
Intelligent from now on will mean that it has a more subtle meaning behind the
music, with ideas expressed that are beyond just the melody. Intelligent music
requires use of musical techniques to show ideas that are subtle or beyond the
basic melody.
(before you all say that these are worded to help my argument, i'd like to say
that this is the idea I had in the first place when someone said "intelligent"
or "complex" when describing trance.)
So now to rebut the most intelligent reply so far, Alccode.
| quote: |
well, NOW we see true intentions! seems like we have a trance hater here.
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once again, i am not a trance hater. right now i'm on vacation, but I return to
school on monday, and i should be home by sunday night. When I get home, i'll
have access to my mp3 server, PM me, and i'll show you my music collection, and
possibly share. Oh yeah, when i'm on the DC server, i'm generally one of the
top three sharers.
| quote: |
then we can EASILY say (and with even more authority) that the "emotion" in
CLASSICAL is simply due to repeated themes that are so forceful that you can't
help but pick up on them. |
If you're talking about leitmotif's, then it doesnt really apply. Leitmotif's
are repeated yes, but they are always changed every repetition. Sometimes
tempo, time signature, key, octave changes or even adding instruments, they are
varried quite a bit between it being repeated.
| quote: |
if i had a nickel for every piece that had an unbalanced sound spectrum (i.e.,
overused, screeching violins galore!), then i'd be richer than
oakenfold. |
And if I had a penny for every time a techno song used only high screeching
sounds, and low bass beats, without anything in the middle, i'd have more money
than our nation's national debt. But even then, most classical music actually
has a wide range of instruments used in balance, from the bass to the piccolo.
Take for example Beethoven's Emporer's Concherto, with only a few instruments
produces a very balanced sound that mixes very well.
| quote: |
"it's so complex it would blow most of your brains" pfff... Vivaldi's the Four
Seasons is the only thing that stands close to trance in terms of emotive
depth. of course, complexity is not a good thing. i would say complexity is
bad. just because something is complex, doesn't mean it's beautiful, or laden
with emotion (in the case of music). in fact, it's often the opposite.
oftentimes, classical gets so complex, with a zillion different instruments,
played by a gigantic mega-orchestra, that it makes my brain turn to mush. where
is the beauty there? |
Apparently you're a classical classical fan. I much perfer romantic period.
(And in general, romantic uses the full 70 instrument symphony, where as alot
of classical and baroque tend to not use such a wide variety of instruments).
But, in this paragraph, you take the statement "complexity can not be a good
thing" and turn it into "complexity is always a bad thing". This is not true,
in that many times certain themes and ideas can only be expressed through use
of a variety of instruments and voices. Take your beloved four seasons for
example. What happens when you remove half the violins and the harpsicord (an
instrument I despise)? You dont have very much now, do you?
| quote: |
on the other hand, Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata is IMMENSELY SIMPLE. in fact,
it's just ONE instrument. and yet it's so beautiful, filled with so much
emotion, that it "blows my brains away" (or rather, my heart). if you haven't
listened to it, please do (and a quality recording, at that). THEN you'll see
REAL "blowing your brains away" quality. |
Well, I suppose you had to show an example of how simplicity is a good thing.
However, if you'll look back to my definition of compexity, and actually listen
to the piece you just mentioned, you'll notice many tempo changes, key
signature changes, a wide variety in the leitmotifs, the use of all seven
octaves on the piano and a variety of other musical techniques, all these
techniques help create this "mind blowing" effect. Without them, the song would
be quite boring.
(and using moonlight sonata and the four seasons as two examples is quite
confusing on my end, because they are quite different, and make it hard for me
to get an idea of what you like)
| quote: |
i think you're in a trance-hating phase, and you've just gotten into classical,
and think it's oh so much better than trance.
after listening to classical for as much as you've listened to trance, you'll
see that it's the same as trance, believe me.
1. like trance, not all of classical is great.
2. like trance, a lot of classical is "repetitive"
3. like trance, you have good songs and you have bad songs.
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first off, i'm not in a trance hating stage, i still listen to trance
constantly, and only listen to classical on the side. I love putting on a good
liveset and having it in the background, but thats not the point. Oh yeah, and
my 18 gigs of classical music is the same 18 gigs I started out with when I
originally started collecting mp3's. Since then, i've gone through several
other phases before settling on trance, but I always kept that classical.
Classical is very hard to lump into one catagory, even though i've done it.
There are several periods with different styles, but even within those periods,
the music still has much more of a variety than trance does. The romantic
period especially has alot of originality. Listen to something like Beethoven's
Prelude und Liebenstod and explore works by Bach, Beethoven, Wagner, and
Chopin. With thousands of tracks produces by these men alone, you'll have
plenty of time.
| quote: |
take any classical piece with "emotion." it may be good, but chances are it
doesn't hold a candle against something like Matanka - Lost in a Dream (push
mix). (unless you're talking about vivaldi. but he doesn't count, he's a god.)
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I dont know, emotion can really be a matter of opinion, but i'd say somethign
like Wagner's Elisa's procession to the Cathedral is probably more emotional
than that song you just mentioned.
Anyway, thats all the writing I can do for tonight. I'll be on later tomorrow,
or saturday if possible. |
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| tiesto14 |
| quote: | Originally posted by branmuffin
Well, i'm back, and after another 20 or so responses, most completely off
topic, i'm going to simply skip most of them since they are irrelivant.
In general, most people here seem to be missing my whole point entirely. I
often see people say that "trance is intelligent" or "trance is complex", and
it isn't. Forgive me for not doing what I should have done at the beginning of
the argument, but at this point i'm going to define "complex" and
"intelligent".
The first one is easy, complex from this point forward means that an individual
piece of music has individual parts repeated many times without a significant
amount of change. The amount of musical techniques is also taken into account.
It can also refer to the amount of instruments as well, but as i'll show later,
you can have a complex piece of music with merely one instrument (piano).
Intelligent from now on will mean that it has a more subtle meaning behind the
music, with ideas expressed that are beyond just the melody. Intelligent music
requires use of musical techniques to show ideas that are subtle or beyond the
basic melody.
(before you all say that these are worded to help my argument, i'd like to say
that this is the idea I had in the first place when someone said "intelligent"
or "complex" when describing trance.)
So now to rebut the most intelligent reply so far, Alccode.
once again, i am not a trance hater. right now i'm on vacation, but I return to
school on monday, and i should be home by sunday night. When I get home, i'll
have access to my mp3 server, PM me, and i'll show you my music collection, and
possibly share. Oh yeah, when i'm on the DC server, i'm generally one of the
top three sharers.
If you're talking about leitmotif's, then it doesnt really apply. Leitmotif's
are repeated yes, but they are always changed every repetition. Sometimes
tempo, time signature, key, octave changes or even adding instruments, they are
varried quite a bit between it being repeated.
And if I had a penny for every time a techno song used only high screeching
sounds, and low bass beats, without anything in the middle, i'd have more money
than our nation's national debt. But even then, most classical music actually
has a wide range of instruments used in balance, from the bass to the piccolo.
Take for example Beethoven's Emporer's Concherto, with only a few instruments
produces a very balanced sound that mixes very well.
Apparently you're a classical classical fan. I much perfer romantic period.
(And in general, romantic uses the full 70 instrument symphony, where as alot
of classical and baroque tend to not use such a wide variety of instruments).
But, in this paragraph, you take the statement "complexity can not be a good
thing" and turn it into "complexity is always a bad thing". This is not true,
in that many times certain themes and ideas can only be expressed through use
of a variety of instruments and voices. Take your beloved four seasons for
example. What happens when you remove half the violins and the harpsicord (an
instrument I despise)? You dont have very much now, do you?
Well, I suppose you had to show an example of how simplicity is a good thing.
However, if you'll look back to my definition of compexity, and actually listen
to the piece you just mentioned, you'll notice many tempo changes, key
signature changes, a wide variety in the leitmotifs, the use of all seven
octaves on the piano and a variety of other musical techniques, all these
techniques help create this "mind blowing" effect. Without them, the song would
be quite boring.
(and using moonlight sonata and the four seasons as two examples is quite
confusing on my end, because they are quite different, and make it hard for me
to get an idea of what you like)
first off, i'm not in a trance hating stage, i still listen to trance
constantly, and only listen to classical on the side. I love putting on a good
liveset and having it in the background, but thats not the point. Oh yeah, and
my 18 gigs of classical music is the same 18 gigs I started out with when I
originally started collecting mp3's. Since then, i've gone through several
other phases before settling on trance, but I always kept that classical.
Classical is very hard to lump into one catagory, even though i've done it.
There are several periods with different styles, but even within those periods,
the music still has much more of a variety than trance does. The romantic
period especially has alot of originality. Listen to something like Beethoven's
Prelude und Liebenstod and explore works by Bach, Beethoven, Wagner, and
Chopin. With thousands of tracks produces by these men alone, you'll have
plenty of time.
I dont know, emotion can really be a matter of opinion, but i'd say somethign
like Wagner's Elisa's procession to the Cathedral is probably more emotional
than that song you just mentioned.
Anyway, thats all the writing I can do for tonight. I'll be on later tomorrow,
or saturday if possible. |
OHHHHHH WHO THE CARES
fine u dont think it is intelligent or complex...whats your freaking point....to some people it is...maybe not to you...but to others it is....same way some find Rap intelligent/complex and others dont....
get on with your life...this is moronic. |
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| Cobalt |
| quote: | Originally posted by branmuffin
Well, i'm back, and after another 20 or so responses, most completely off topic, i'm going to simply skip most of them since they are irrelivant. |
Nowhere in your reply do you address a single one of my arguments. I think they are far from 'irrelevant,' unless you are the absolute authority on relevancy as well as 'intelligence.'
| quote: | Originally posted by branmuffin
Intelligent from now on will mean that it has a more subtle meaning behind the music, with ideas expressed that are beyond just the melody. |
Would you care to explain how 'ideas' are expressed behind the melody? It looks like you are botching these terms in order to degrade the intelligence and skill that does exist within trance.
| quote: | Originally posted by branmuffin
So now to rebut the most intelligent reply so far, Alccode. |
Interesting to note that you deem the most 'intelligent' reply the one which most closely agrees with you.
| quote: | Originally posted by branmuffin
Well, I suppose you had to show an example of how simplicity is a good thing. However, if you'll look back to my definition of compexity, and actually listen to the piece you just mentioned, you'll notice many tempo changes, key signature changes, a wide variety in the leitmotifs, the use of all seven octaves on the piano and a variety of other musical techniques, all these techniques help create this "mind blowing" effect. Without them, the song would
be quite boring. |
You seriously believe that the emotion of Moonlight Sonata is due to all the techniques you just listed? Furthermore, are you placing a value on the piece simply by the 'number of techniques' it implements? Sorry, but this is not necesarily how I judge the skill and intelligence that went into a production.
| quote: | Originally posted by branmuffin
but even within those periods, the music still has much more of a variety than trance does. The romantic period especially has alot of originality. |
Classical has existed for hundreds of years and has more artists than trance does. Abusing people who feel trance is an intelligent form of music by comparing it to the monolithic power of classical is ludicrous.
No offense, sir, but you seem to simply be attempting to elevate your own status with this thread. The artistry of trance takes talent and intelligence, and I put it above most other genres in that respect.
Also, was it really necessary to double-space your reply? |
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| Carona |
I agree with tiesto14. This is stupid but O well, he sure seems determined to prove it's simple and that everyone doesn't understand the thread.
Why all the classical talk, this is Tranceaddict.com :rolleyes: |
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| Choobak |
i think someone's had too much musical theory...
you know... it's just not intelligent to implement tempo and key... trance is made for mixing and if you've ever tried mixing you know you can't have a changing tempo or key if you want to pull off a decent sounding mix...
trance is simple because it has to be and comparing it's complexity to classical music is simply a pointless... |
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| Cobalt |
| quote: | Originally posted by Choobak
i think someone's had too much musical theory... |
:p No kidding. |
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| DJ Arsalan |
You really have a lot of time on your hand branmuffin, are you getting a kick out of this ? lol.
If you like trance then good listen to it, who cares if it's simple or complex it still needs a lot talent to make something so "simple" right? |
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| dyson |
| quote: | Originally posted by n0bben-
those who claims trance is intelligent are those prog-addicts..and they are.. erm.. wrong. |
so true, Music is meant to make you feel emotions!, being intelligent is not an emotion, maybe a nerdy really stupid guy may listen to "intelligent" trance so he can feel superior :S
thats just plain dumb
If there was no one listeting to "intelligent" music, then nobody would find it "intelligent", it would be just music that noone will here
Classical music isn't more "intelligent" than anything, its just been around for a really long time so that somebody invented a theory.
So stop wynning branmuffin, I had the same discussion about this with a Goa trancefan, and at the end its just plain dull conversation, nobody wins, and certainly not somebody who thinks as music as "intelligent", dumb people also like music, for what they feel, "Intelligence" is not a feeling.
Also I think the topic really got off topic, but what do you expect, you post something like this in a trance forum???....you are not that intelligent I see. |
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