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Why I love the USA (pg. 6)
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| tiesto14 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
Actually.. if you had the intelligence to research this .. the figure would be approxiamtely correct...I have heard that figure repeatedly from my profs... chomsky...and through my own independent research in University...I think you just cant stand the amount of people your government has killed.....its disgustingly high isnt it!
Stop pulling bull from your ass. |
well bull is posting a 1.5million figure without a link to back it up....if you read it from Chomsky then getting a source to prove it should be easy.,...so present a link or retract your figure.....even authors display where they get facts from....just because "you say so" and "your proffessors say so' means nothing in the real world....show some proof.....
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
I full well knew who the taliban were since they came into power in 1994. I knew of their viscious existence.. their treatment of women... the radical fundamentalism... and their atrocious public executions...
Even Oprah had a special on their women before septemeber 11th... which i was so happy to see becuase not a bit of attention was been given to their inhumane acts... Yet they still hadnt been taken seriously.. until they blew up those ancient Buddhist statues which they though was anti-islamic. But as usual.... in America.. that was a 5 second tidbit in their news broadcasts... So i can reassure you that i full well knew who the Taliban were... |
um before you go on your rants on how the American media is a joke...which for the most part i agree,,,,remember you just said you received good information from Oprah regarding the situation....isnt she American...and i assure you she has ties to the media...
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
You really need to brush up on your ability to argue your points.
WHY WERE THEY ALLIES... is the question...why would the states train a radical islamic fundementalist like Bin Laden after the rise of Hezbollah and the attack on Israeli athletes at their olympic villiage by other fundementalists??? WHY WERE THEY ALLIES WITH THESE PEOPLE??!??!?! |
i never said the reasons we where allies was just....all i said was that we where allies at the time....and you made it out like we should know the future....
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
You need alot of learning to do boy! |
please do not call me boy....i find it offensive and degrading....you stroll around this forum in your self righteous ether proclaiming to be a higher person and more educated then any American on the face of the planet....your arrognace is quite pathetic....i would love to join in on these debates but with comments that you often throw at people , which for the most part are rude, it makes it difficult to speak in civil ways....
I never claimed to know it all...infact i admit i dont...however i am always eager to learn....but not from someone who is condesending and pretentious...like yourself.....
So if you would like to discuss...i am up for that...but if you would like to take cheap shots at people then i assure you that you will only be debating with people who find amusement in your bashing....i on the other hand am interested in learning and sharing different views....but there are ways to go about it...
So you think in an U.N. meeting or a summit one of the sides would abrubtly stand up at theend of his rhetoric and say "You need alot of learning to do boy!"...no of course not...that is because they are adults in adult conversations....so if you feel you can act as an adult then i am open to your ideas....
I was once very pro American...as you know...however after i always got bashed i started researching on my own of the terrible things my country has done...and i see my ""government" in a new way...i still love America and beleive that if soemone wants to come here and prosper ina job and finacially then America is the best place in the world to do so...but are foreign affairs need MAJOR work...
Please just take it easy and your points will have more validity and maybe just maybe someone will listen to what you say...instead of getting offended and taking a cheap shot back at you....
sounds simple doesnt it? |
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| Cyrus King |
| quote: | Originally posted by tiesto14
well bull is posting a 1.5million figure without a link to back it up....if you read it from Chomsky then getting a source to prove it should be easy.,...so present a link or retract your figure.....even authors display where they get facts from....just because "you say so" and "your proffessors say so' means nothing in the real world....show some proof..... |
If you did a little..UNBIAST research.. you will stumble on this number...remember .. this numbe includes the people who are or have died after the war too.,..i dont want to provide the link becuase then you will criticize its source and i am too lazy too as well. I just know this... im not pulling numbers from the air...
| quote: |
um before you go on your rants on how the American media is a joke...which for the most part i agree,,,,remember you just said you received good information from Oprah regarding the situation....isnt she American...and i assure you she has ties to the media... |
If you read me correctly.. i was HAPPY that Oprah was actually covering it becuase it was something that was not even widely acknowledged by the media..that was exactlymy point...it just showed how low the amunt of coverage i was seeing on it...remmeber.. thats one EPISODE IN ONE WEEK THAT LASTS ONE HOUR IN ONE YEAR!
| quote: |
i never said the reasons we where allies was just....all i said was that we where allies at the time....and you made it out like we should know the future.... |
Yeah... you should know who you deal with.. what their possible intentions would be... how they were treating others before you befreinded them.. how they think the world works....you dont need to know the future in order to figure these things out!
| quote: |
please do not call me boy....i find it offensive and degrading....you stroll around this forum in your self righteous ether proclaiming to be a higher person and more educated then any American on the face of the planet....your arrognace is quite pathetic....i would love to join in on these debates but with comments that you often throw at people , which for the most part are rude, it makes it difficult to speak in civil ways....
I never claimed to know it all...infact i admit i dont...however i am always eager to learn....but not from someone who is condesending and pretentious...like yourself.....
So if you would like to discuss...i am up for that...but if you would like to take cheap shots at people then i assure you that you will only be debating with people who find amusement in your bashing....i on the other hand am interested in learning and sharing different views....but there are ways to go about it...
So you think in an U.N. meeting or a summit one of the sides would abrubtly stand up at theend of his rhetoric and say "You need alot of learning to do boy!"...no of course not...that is because they are adults in adult conversations....so if you feel you can act as an adult then i am open to your ideas....
I was once very pro American...as you know...however after i always got bashed i started researching on my own of the terrible things my country has done...and i see my ""government" in a new way...i still love America and beleive that if soemone wants to come here and prosper ina job and finacially then America is the best place in the world to do so...but are foreign affairs need MAJOR work...
Please just take it easy and your points will have more validity and maybe just maybe someone will listen to what you say...instead of getting offended and taking a cheap shot back at you....
sounds simple doesnt it? |
You took one sentence i wrote and blew it way out of proportion by using it to judge my past, present and future way of debating issues...
Tiesto14...i have had arguments with you before and to all honesty... all i saw was pure ignorance...and many otherson the forum saw it too.. you were just making ignorant comments that pissed everyone off....thats why i called you "boy"...becuase thats the impression you gave me and others.... I just dont take you seriously becuase of the bull ive seen you write...
For gods sake.. the last time i rememebr you were telling me you had a life and friends and that i was a lonely computer nerd...and im sure you meant that becuase you were trying to convince me i was...:rolleyes: |
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| tiesto14 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
If you did a little..UNBIAST research.. you will stumble on this number...remember .. this numbe includes the people who are or have died after the war too.,..i dont want to provide the link becuase then you will criticize its source and i am too lazy too as well. I just know this... im not pulling numbers from the air...
If you read me correctly.. i was HAPPY that Oprah was actually covering it becuase it was something that was not even widely acknowledged by the media..that was exactlymy point...it just showed how low the amunt of coverage i was seeing on it...remmeber.. thats one EPISODE IN ONE WEEK THAT LASTS ONE HOUR IN ONE YEAR!
Yeah... you should know who you deal with.. what their possible intentions would be... how they were treating others before you befreinded them.. how they think the world works....you dont need to know the future in order to figure these things out!
You took one sentence i wrote and blew it way out of proportion by using it to judge my past, present and future way of debating issues...
Tiesto14...i have had arguments with you before and to all honesty... all i saw was pure ignorance...and many otherson the forum saw it too.. you were just making ignorant comments that pissed everyone off....thats why i called you "boy"...becuase thats the impression you gave me and others.... I just dont take you seriously becuase of the bull ive seen you write...
For gods sake.. the last time i rememebr you were telling me you had a life and friends and that i was a lonely computer nerd...and im sure you meant that becuase you were trying to convince me i was...:rolleyes: |
ok i give up...not worth talking to you on a normal level....you treat every American or anyone with different views then yours as ignorant....u refuse to post links to back up your figures which in itself is kind of sad....i wont bother anymore...i tryed coming back..but you can not refrain from degrading someone....grow up.....maybe your views/opinions will grow further then a trance forum...because franly if this is how you act on the internet..you must be very immature in real life...enjoy |
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| Renegade |
| quote: | | well bull is posting a 1.5million figure without a link to back it up.... |
"Most estimates put the Iraqi death toll in the Gulf War in the range of 100,000. Due to the increased accuracy of aerial warfare, the proportion of Iraqi civilians killed was much less than it had been in previous air campaigns. At the same time, because the bombing was the heaviest in world history -- consisting of tens of thousands of sorties -- the absolute numbers were quite high. Most estimates of the civilian death toll are approximately 15,000."
http://www.fair.org/media-beat/021205.html
That is, bombing in itself killed about 100,000 Iraqis, 15,000 of which were innocent civilians. The rest, I presume, were soldiers (many of whom were gunned down - unarmed - while retreating back to Iraq). But that isn't the full story. That figure fails to take into account:
The deaths and birth defects caused by weapons deliberately coated with radioactive material (which also affected some US soldiers):
http://csf.colorado.edu/forums/peace/feb98/0089.html
The deaths caused by the abhorent conditions refugees from the war were subjected to:
http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/men...tm#_Toc32640932
The deaths caused by the deliberate destruction of Iraqs water system:
http://www.medialens.org/alerts/020...Open_Letter.htm
http://free.freespeech.org/american...sonedWater.html
And other vital infrastructure including "Iraq's electrical grid..... key industries, and transportation arteries" (and refusing them to allow the importation of the materials necessary to rebuild them):
http://rwor.org/a/v23/1110-19/1119/iraq_water.htm
The deaths caused by the deliberate blocking of oil contracts legal under the "oil-for-food scheme":
http://www.globalpolicy.org/securit...aq1/iraq004.htm
http://fpeng.peopledaily.com.cn/200...0630_44353.html
The deaths caused by the economy destroyed by the Gulf war and the subsequent embargos (u/e 60%, inflation 60%, foreign debt 330%):
http://i-cias.com/e.o/iraq_2.htm
The thousands of deaths caused by subsequent bombing missions post-gulf war:
http://www.ccmep.org/us_bombing_watch.html
The deaths caused by the deliberate blocking of over $5 billion worth of UN approved humanitarian aid:
http://free.freespeech.org/american...sAboutIraq.html
Oh, and then there's the small matter of the deaths caused by the sanctions. Here you can examine the deterioration of Iraqi health care and agriculture caused by the sanctions:
http://www.who.int/disasters/repo/5249.html
The 600% rise in infant mortality rates caused by sanctions:
http://www.who.int/archives/inf-pr-1996/pr96-23.html
The impact of sanctions on children:
http://www.unicef.org/emerg/Sanctions.htm
http://www.unicef.org/emerg/ImpactSanctions.htm
The UNICEF study which shows that sanctions have been directly responsible for the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children over the period 1991-1999:
http://www.unicef.org/media/publications/irqu5est.pdf
A number of estimates place the death toll caused by sanctions at about 1 - 2 million:
http://www.globalpolicy.org/securit...001/0613cas.htm
http://www.globalpolicy.org/securit...2002/07indy.htm
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opini...santionop.shtml
http://www.fourthfreedom.org/php/t-...c=garf-imp.hinc (more conservative estimate)
In short, I'd say that 1.5 million deaths from the gulf war was a pretty good estimate all up.
Just keep bombing that rubble George! Eliminate the threat these starving people quite obviously pose! |
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| LiquidX |
| WoW funny to see how a thread about why you love the USA has turned out to be more like why I hate .. hehehehehe I'll stay out, I got my opinions :o |
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| Cyrus King |
Tiesto14... you convinced ??
I knew i was right and you were wrong..... like usual! |
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| tiesto14 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Renegade
"Most estimates put the Iraqi death toll in the Gulf War in the range of 100,000. Due to the increased accuracy of aerial warfare, the proportion of Iraqi civilians killed was much less than it had been in previous air campaigns. At the same time, because the bombing was the heaviest in world history -- consisting of tens of thousands of sorties -- the absolute numbers were quite high. Most estimates of the civilian death toll are approximately 15,000."
http://www.fair.org/media-beat/021205.html
That is, bombing in itself killed about 100,000 Iraqis, 15,000 of which were innocent civilians. The rest, I presume, were soldiers (many of whom were gunned down - unarmed - while retreating back to Iraq). But that isn't the full story. That figure fails to take into account:
The deaths and birth defects caused by weapons deliberately coated with radioactive material (which also affected some US soldiers):
http://csf.colorado.edu/forums/peace/feb98/0089.html
The deaths caused by the abhorent conditions refugees from the war were subjected to:
http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/men...tm#_Toc32640932
The deaths caused by the deliberate destruction of Iraqs water system:
http://www.medialens.org/alerts/020...Open_Letter.htm
http://free.freespeech.org/american...sonedWater.html
And other vital infrastructure including "Iraq's electrical grid..... key industries, and transportation arteries" (and refusing them to allow the importation of the materials necessary to rebuild them):
http://rwor.org/a/v23/1110-19/1119/iraq_water.htm
The deaths caused by the deliberate blocking of oil contracts legal under the "oil-for-food scheme":
http://www.globalpolicy.org/securit...aq1/iraq004.htm
http://fpeng.peopledaily.com.cn/200...0630_44353.html
The deaths caused by the economy destroyed by the Gulf war and the subsequent embargos (u/e 60%, inflation 60%, foreign debt 330%):
http://i-cias.com/e.o/iraq_2.htm
The thousands of deaths caused by subsequent bombing missions post-gulf war:
http://www.ccmep.org/us_bombing_watch.html
The deaths caused by the deliberate blocking of over $5 billion worth of UN approved humanitarian aid:
http://free.freespeech.org/american...sAboutIraq.html
Oh, and then there's the small matter of the deaths caused by the sanctions. Here you can examine the deterioration of Iraqi health care and agriculture caused by the sanctions:
http://www.who.int/disasters/repo/5249.html
The 600% rise in infant mortality rates caused by sanctions:
http://www.who.int/archives/inf-pr-1996/pr96-23.html
The impact of sanctions on children:
http://www.unicef.org/emerg/Sanctions.htm
http://www.unicef.org/emerg/ImpactSanctions.htm
The UNICEF study which shows that sanctions have been directly responsible for the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children over the period 1991-1999:
http://www.unicef.org/media/publications/irqu5est.pdf
A number of estimates place the death toll caused by sanctions at about 1 - 2 million:
http://www.globalpolicy.org/securit...001/0613cas.htm
http://www.globalpolicy.org/securit...2002/07indy.htm
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opini...santionop.shtml
http://www.fourthfreedom.org/php/t-...c=garf-imp.hinc (more conservative estimate)
In short, I'd say that 1.5 million deaths from the gulf war was a pretty good estimate all up.
Just keep bombing that rubble George! Eliminate the threat these starving people quite obviously pose! |
now deduct all the deaths caused by the hands of Hussein.... |
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| Cyrus King |
| quote: | Originally posted by tiesto14
now deduct all the deaths caused by the hands of Hussein.... |
GIVE ME A ING BREAK!!!!
LOOOOOOOOOOOL
YOU CHOOSE TO STAY IGNORANT....i cant beleive that pathetic response.... |
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| tiesto14 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
Tiesto14... you convinced ??
I knew i was right and you were wrong..... like usual! |
actually no i am not......u only reinforced my thoughts that your an anti american....
You claim Bush is such a danger..yet you do not show your hatred for Tony Blair...is he not pushing for war aswell?...yes i beleive he is....
And if you dispise America so much and it's people....then answer me this...
Why do you use American products?
Why do you watch American movies and television?
I am sure you use Microsoft products...yet they are American...
I am sure you drive a car that has American pars..
I am sure you wear cloths that are American made/designed
I am sure you have eaten American food...
etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc...
NOW....i for one would just like to tell you that everythign you claim to condem...you actually support...being that corporate America runs the American media and for the most part the government...
I for one would not use ANY products from a nation i claim to hateso much.....
Personally i am against testing products on animals...so i NEVER use any products that do so or are involved in it...
If you hate America so much and George Bush...u should not buy out products...being you are actually suporting the war effort and all the trajedies that he claim the US has been involved in....
You would not find me wearing cloths made in Iraq...or drivinga car made in Iraq...or eating Iraq food....i do not like the Iraq government...so i do not support it buy buying its goods....
You stance appears to be strong...yet how can u condem America and its media on a dialy basis...yet at the same time support it day in an day out.....doesnt that make you a closet hypocrite?:rolleyes: |
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| Cyrus King |
| quote: | Originally posted by tiesto14
actually no i am not......u only reinforced my thoughts that your an anti american....
You claim Bush is such a danger..yet you do not show your hatred for Tony Blair...is he not pushing for war aswell?...yes i beleive he is....
And if you dispise America so much and it's people....then answer me this...
Why do you use American products?
Why do you watch American movies and television?
I am sure you use Microsoft products...yet they are American...
I am sure you drive a car that has American pars..
I am sure you wear cloths that are American made/designed
I am sure you have eaten American food...
etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc...
NOW....i for one would just like to tell you that everythign you claim to condem...you actually support...being that corporate America runs the American media and for the most part the government...
I for one would not use ANY products from a nation i claim to hateso much.....
Personally i am against testing products on animals...so i NEVER use any products that do so or are involved in it...
If you hate America so much and George Bush...u should not buy out products...being you are actually suporting the war effort and all the trajedies that he claim the US has been involved in....
You would not find me wearing cloths made in Iraq...or drivinga car made in Iraq...or eating Iraq food....i do not like the Iraq government...so i do not support it buy buying its goods....
You stance appears to be strong...yet how can u condem America and its media on a dialy basis...yet at the same time support it day in an day out.....doesnt that make you a closet hypocrite?:rolleyes: |
YOU DONT KNOW ME ONE BIT.. who do you think you are...
I bet you use the ing benzol extracted from Iraq to fuel your cars.. stop spewing out bull.
And yes.. i do hate Blair to.. just like 80% of his own nation does.
:rolleyes: |
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| tiesto14 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
YOU DONT KNOW ME ONE BIT.. who do you think you are...
I bet you use the ing benzol extracted from Iraq to fuel your cars.. stop spewing out bull.
And yes.. i do hate Blair to.. just like 80% of his own nation does.
:rolleyes: |
whats wrong the truth hurts?..you DO support every effort Bush makes and everything the American media stands for......... |
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| Cyrus King |
| quote: | Originally posted by tiesto14
whats wrong the truth hurts?..you DO support every effort Bush makes and everything the American media stands for......... |
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
now you are making me laugh at you....
I am a film major doing an independent thesis on the propogating nature of your media...you dont even know the half of it....
Trust me... you would cringe at how pathetic your media and government is....
I consume it.. for the sole purpose of opposing its disgusting existence. |
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