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circumsisions? (pg. 4)
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| astroboy |
I know that circumcision became more common in the west during and after WW1. Soldiers often had limited access to washing facilities and encountered various hygiene-related ailments including urinary infections. Circumcision was seen by the medical profession as a good method of reducing the occurence of such infections in extreme situations (as it was by various nomadic peoples in hot climates around the world - eg. Africans, Semitic tribes, Australian Aborigines).
The pain of the actual procedure, without anaesthetic (as it is often done in religious context) can be likened to pinching a sizeable portion of skin on the sensitive part of the arm inside the elbow-joint and cutting it off, leaving the last bit to be torn without the aid of a blade (as the webbing between the foreskin and penis often is).
The discomfort following the procedure can be likened (to girls) to having your clitoris permanently exposed and rubbing/chafing against your clothing.
Eventually what nature intended to be a semi-internal part of the anatomy becomes desensitized and external. The skin on the glans (head of the penis) thickens and the sensitive part that is meant to play the same role during sex as the clitoris does for women, becomes as insensitive as any other part of the body.
Although it is a rarely reported fact, circumcisions do occasionally go wrong. Some men are left with horribly misshapen penises for the rest of their lives and some even die due to poorly sterilised surgical equipment. "That is a risk you face with any form of surgery" you might say, and you'd be right, but most surgery undergone by patients is a necessary medical procedure and a last resort. Why force a child through such invasive, painful and uncomfortable procedures? WHy take a perfect new born baby and start chopping bits off for aesthetic reasons?
For Nomadic desert dwellers this seemed like a reasonable trade-off. Medicine was practically non-existant and hygene was poor at best. A significant number of infants died shortly after birth, this was one way of slightly increasing their chances of survival. However in this time of runnning water and daily showers there is no justification for unnecesarily removing body parts that nature has taken milions of years of evolution to develop.
Female circumcision is certainly more barbaric but that doesn't justify male circumcision. |
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| fr0st |
| quote: | Originally posted by ProDiGaL
are you are retard?? you MUST be a retard, cause only a complete retard would post something SOOO ING RETARDED!!
I would realy like to know where you heard this load of utter crap that you are trying to pass off as knowledge. you displayed with that post that you KNOW ALL about muslims.
MR RETARD, women circumsisions are not religously motivated u dumb idiot, its totally cultral. the men in tribes did it so women didnt feel the pleasure (orgasm) and hence wouldnt cheat on them.... dry vagina, damn you are a dip. It is widely practiced in countries where the predominant religion is Christianity: Examples are Ethiopia and Kenya. Once again practice originated in africa and has nothing to do with religion.
And then you finished your post with "im just saying the facts", buddy you twouldnt know he facts if they crawled up your ass.
White_Raven360 it sounded like you were discriminating, my bad, it happens more in africa still, way more than middle east, you sounded like that was the only place that did it and so on.... |
Female Circumcission is a social custom, not a religious practice. However, in those Muslim countries where it is practice, FGM is often justified by two controversial sayings of the Prophet Mohammed that seem to favor sunna circumcision. The authenticity of these sayings are unconfirmed, and some scholars have refuted them. Even if true, they only permit the practice; they do not mandate it.
FGM has probably been performed for at least 1,400 years (some references estimate 2,000 years), and started during what Muslims call "al-gahiliyyah" (the era of ignorance). The Qu'r'an, Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) and Christian Scriptures (New Testament) is silent on the subject. The Sunnah (the words and actions of the Prophet Mohammed) contain a number of references to female circumcision:
A discussion was recorded between Mohammed and Um Habibah (or Um 'Atiyyah), a woman who performed infibulation on slaves. She said that she would continue the procedure "unless it is forbidden and you order me to stop doing it". He replied (according to one translation): "Yes, it is allowed. Come closer so I can teach you: if you cut, do not overdo it, because it brings more radiance to the face and it is more pleasant for the husband." This passage states that the least invasive form of circumcision is allowed. It does not say that it is to be encouraged or is compulsory. The Muslim Women's League comments on this passage: "This is known to be a "weak" hadith in that it does not meet the strict criteria to be considered unquestionable (classified as mursal, i.e. missing a link in the chain of transmitters in that none was among the original Companions of the Prophet.) In addition, it is found in only one of the six undisputed, authentic hadith collections, that is in the Sunan of Abu Dawud (Chapter 1888). 23
Mohammed is recorded as speaking of the sunna circumcision to the Ansars' wives, saying: "Cut slightly without exaggeration, because it is more pleasant for your husbands". Again, this appears to be related to the least intrusive method of circumcision.
However, these passages are regarded by many Muslims as having little credibility or authenticity. The Muslim Women's League comments: "According to Sayyid Sabiq, renowned scholar and author of Fiqh-us-Sunnah, all hadiths concerning female circumcision are non-authentic." 23 An extensive analysis of classical Muslim authors is available online. 24
Many Muslims see passages in the Qur'an which, by implication, oppose FGM. they reason:
God apparently created the clitoris for the sole purpose of generating pleasure. It has no other purpose. There is no instruction in the Qur'an or in the writings of the Prophet Mohammed which require that the clitoris be surgically modified. Thus God must approve of its presence. And so, it should not be removed or reduced in size or function.
The Qur'an promotes the concept of a husband and wife giving each other pleasure during sexual intercourse. For example: "It is lawful for you to go in unto your wives during the night preceding the (day's) fast: they are as a garment for you and you are as a garment for them." (2:187)
"...and He has put love and mercy between you." (30:21)
Mutilated genitalia reduce or eliminate a woman's pleasure during the act.
Nawal El-Saadawi, a Muslim victim of infibulation, stated:
"The importance given to virginity and an intact hymen in these societies is the reason why female circumcision still remains a very widespread practice despite a growing tendency, especially in urban Egypt, to do away with it as something outdated and harmful. Behind circumcision lies the belief that, by removing parts of girls' external genitals organs, sexual desire is minimized. This permits a female who has reached the dangerous age of puberty and adolescence to protect her virginity, and therefore her honor, with greater ease. Chastity was imposed on male attendants in the female harem by castration which turned them into inoffensive eunuchs. Similarly female circumcision is meant to preserve the chastity of young girls by reducing their desire for sexual intercourse." 4
Mohammed Sayyed Tantawi, head of the al-Azhar Islamic Institute has stated that the practice is un-Islamic. The Health Minister of Egypt, Ismail Sallam, announced the ban on FGM in 1996-JUL. This was upheld by a junior administrative court in Cairo.
Sheik Youssef Badri, a Muslim fundamentalist, took the health minister to court. In 1997-JUN, an Egyptian court overturned the country's ban on FGM. Eight Muslim scholars and doctors had testified that the ban exceeded the government's authority and violated the legal rights of the medical profession. Sheik Youssef Badri commented: "[Female] circumcision is Islamic; the court has said that the ban violated religious law. There's nothing which says circumcision is a crime, but the Egyptians came along and said that Islam is a crime." About 1997-JUL-6, the German newsmagazine Der Spiegel interviewed Sheik Badri. He claimed that many Muslim women are pleased with this victory of Islam over its enemies. When it was pointed out to him that parents in Morocco and Algeria do not practice FGM, he replied that the clitoris in Egyptian girls was larger than in those countries and had to be cut back to a normal size. He quoted a French study which showed that circumcised girls are less likely to catch AIDS. * He believes that the United States is spreading misinformation on the health risks of FGM.
* Author's note: This may be true; victims of FGM are probably less likely to be sexually active.
The government appealed the case to Egypt's Supreme Administrative Court. They ruled that the operation is not required by Islam, and that "female circumcision is not a personal right according to the rules of Islamic Sharia (law)." Thus, FGM is subject to Egyptian law. They prohibited the procedure, even if it is done with the agreement of the child and her parents. However, gynecologists will be able to approve the surgery if it is needed for health reasons.
Fatwas are published opinions by Muslim religious scholars. They are non-binding in law. But Muslim believers are expected to follow them. In Egypt, a number of Fatwas have been issued by the influential Egyptian Fatwa Committee on FGM:
1949-MAY-28: They decided that it is not a sin to reject female circumcision.
1951-JUN-23: They stated that female circumcision is desirable because it curbs "nature" (i.e. sexual drive among women). It stated that medical concerns over the practice are irrelevant.
1981-JAN-29: The Great Sheikh of Al-Azhar (the most famous University of the Islamic World) stated that parents must follow the lessons of Mohammed and not listen to medical authorities because the latter often change their minds. Parents must do their duty and have their daughters circumcised.
Ok soo not all Muslims but some do and use relgion to back it...now thats facts. |
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| KilldaDJ |
right...
some ppl like chopped cocks
it gets rid of smeg [knobcheese as spad stated lol]
and it clean and more sensual [and it make u cream faster or not, i got lost somewhere where someone was saying it made u jack the biscuit quicker and someone else was saying it takes ages for u to spurt it :conf: ]
meh...
smegma - W.O.T.D. [word of the day] :D |
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| cap |
| They both function the same.. all i care about |
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| Konijn Island |
As long as the guy keeps it clean, then it's win-win for everybody :rolleyes:
I'm amazed that in the 21st century people continue to mutilate the human body cause "God" said so; but i guess if they're willing to kill each other over whose "God" is better, then lopping off part of the dick is no big deal... |
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| ProDiGaL |
| quote: | Originally posted by fr0st
Ok soo not all Muslims but some do and use relgion to back it...now thats facts. |
WOW nice cut and paste, people have been using religion to back everything these days so what else is new?? Thanks for re-enforcing your display of ignorance, did you even read my post about christians also doing it??
But its ok, dont mind me, just go on hating and discriminating what you like....... |
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| fr0st |
| quote: | Originally posted by ProDiGaL
WOW nice cut and paste, people have been using religion to back everything these days so what else is new?? Thanks for re-enforcing your display of ignorance, did you even read my post about christians also doing it??
But its ok, dont mind me, just go on hating and discriminating what you like....... |
Well I guess you must be a Muslim... did i once disagree with you or flame you in anyway, dude grow up. I'm not gonna argue over foreskin on a trance music site...With some fool who has nothing better to do then to prove someone wrong, when in no way am i wrong. Vent your inferiority complex elsewhere. I'm done with this thread. |
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| mos man |
| lol, it never ceases to amaze me how pathetic people can get on this forum.. :rolleyes: |
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| ProDiGaL |
| quote: | Originally posted by fr0st
Well I guess you must be a Muslim... did i once disagree with you or flame you in anyway, dude grow up. I'm not gonna argue over foreskin on a trance music site...With some fool who has nothing better to do then to prove someone wrong, when in no way am i wrong. Vent your inferiority complex elsewhere. I'm done with this thread. |
well maybe you should think before you post somthing about who you might offend, especially if your donkey dumb on the subject and make up crap as you go along,
yes you are wrong, you said muslim woemn are not ment to enjoy sex and that they are solely tools for men |
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| JM |
ALL RIGHT!!! TURNED INTO A FLAME THREAD, PROBABLY BY NOOBS, AGAIN:p
| quote: | Originally posted by ali92
Such as??? You give no examples. I'm one of the people on here (I'm sure there are others on this board) who wonder exactly WHAT do you mean and what countries are involved. |
2 years ago i took a "human sexuality" course at my old college. along with the hands on sexual exercises, we watched plenty of educational sex movies. Although one day, we watched a video of both male/female circumcisions being performed. the boy was a newborn, and the girl was an older, pre-teen girl in a country i belive to be India (not entirely sure of this as i cant recall 100%) anyways, both were in pain, and looked horrible :(
| quote: | Originally posted by SgtFoo
But yea..apparently most girls like it better cut. |
apparently? who told you this?
| quote: | Originally posted by cycloptor
nowadays a lot of doctors are refusing to do the procedure as it causes un-necessary trauma to the baby. |
correct. only about 50% of baby boys are 'cut' these days....FAR less than 10-20 yrs ago.
no need to be circumcised, i haven't heards a single complaint from any girl yet:p
>JM< |
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| Provitex |
When the ladies suck your dick,
they find it better if it's been "cleansed"!
But that's not the main reason why, I mean there's a bunch.
Infections can occur if you don't, bla bla bla
Anyways, who gives a !?
I can't believe I just posted on here... geez:nervous: |
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| mndeg |
rofl, its like the americans (cut) vs non cut europeans here
of course americans are defensive and make false claims |
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