|
Bowling for Columbine, the movie (pg. 5)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
Occrider has to constatnly rehash this one link to disprove everything that Moore presented in his film. Unfortunately, in your eyes rider, this movie has garnered phenomenal success. IT still is and after his acceptance speech at the oscars, in which the American media made it out to look like Moore was disapproved of by some boos in the audience, attendance in his film shot up 150%, his book went back to number one in the New York Times BEstsellers list, and his website is getting millions of hits.
People in the US are disgusted by Moore, or from the reaction i have seen, yet there is a large interest in his works as of now... hmmmmm i wonder why?
In any case, wait till you guys see what he's coming up with next. A documentary about called Farenheit 911. ITs about the bush family and their prior business links. |
Well I repeat the link because it is the most comprehensive analysis of the documentary I have yet to see. Funny you critisize my posting of the link yet you FAIL to critisize or comment on the facts POSTED in the link. As a matter of fact, NOBODY has yet to critisize or successfully denounce what the article points out. Why is that cyrus? Bash me all you want but the facts still stand as is! If you had READ my original postings about the issue I never denied the fact that Moore presents a valid social commentary. I merely denounced the methods he has used!
Would you care to contradict me? By all means you are the only one skirting around the issue. And unlike you, I don't equate success with truthfulness or validity. Haha it's ironic how you're using success as an indicator of truthfulness when the whole concept behind Michael Moore is to see beyond perceptions! |
|
|
| DaveSaenz |
| quote: | Originally posted by mndeg
personally i like how all american on the internet are always pro american, here in school they never teach you what united states history as done wrong
in grade school, the native americans and people from the mayflower got along and had a big feast
everythings painted in a rosy picture, nothing really anti america
goes out on the media and if it does (afghanistans dancing on the streets aafter 9/11) we regard ourselves as more moral than them and just plain "more right"
edit: I BLAME MTV |
You are so right about that!!! Yeah, I learned my history from Charlie brown. The red guys helped Charlie plant corn and learn how to toke up properly. :toothless
| quote: | Originally posted by cap
yea america must really suck for there to be millions of immigrants. |
Lol...:D :stongue: |
|
|
| DaveSaenz |
| quote: | Originally posted by TuanAnh213
rofl...now tahts what i call blatant generalizing...not every ing TOM JOE and MARY in America goes walking down a street with a ing .45 in their pocket or runnig around holding one...that person will get the same reaction as as the confusion fear in any other country...for one i've never seen a man in my life holding a gun or walking down the street with a gun...how ridiculous can you get |
I know man. Neither have I, and I live in Texas for christsake. :stongue: :stongue: :stongue: It's not normal for someone to walk around with a loaded gun in their hand. People would get scared and call the police if someone did that. You have to understand that this movie is Moore's interpretation/perception of American society. I agree it's well done, but these gross generalizations are just silly. If I recall correctly he was a high school drop out, so perhaps in a way he identifies with the school shooters.
Yes it's true you can get a permit to carry a concealed weapon in some states, but if you go around brandishing it you're breaking the law. The people go through a background check, and you can't be sold a gun if you are a felon, or have a history of violent offenses.
Of course there is a problem with "straw buying" of guns. Like someone can buy one for a person who can't legally own one. The amount of guns might be a product of a wild west type history. I've never fired a gun in my life though. I could go to walmart and buy one though lol. If they have a hunting section then why wouldn't they have guns?? :stongue: :stongue: :stongue: Walmart wants to stamp out all of the small businesses, so why not guns? I'd need a background check and waiting period... Many states are more strict with gun laws though like California or Illinois or New Jersey...
This post also reminded me of some recent school shooting incidents that have occured in Germany and Australia.... What's the deal with Germany??? So violent and drunk all the time! I don't think I want to move there....:nervous: :nervous:
:rolleyes:
:stongue:
I should also add that I feel pretty safe walking on the streets at night in the city where I live. There are some places I wouldn't go, but for the most part it's ok.:D |
|
|
| DaveSaenz |
| quote: | Originally posted by Neo nEro
I didn't know much about Australians so i watched the Crocodile Hunter. It really clear things up for me about the Australian culture.
[/sarcasm] |
Yeah no . Now I think everyone down there restles crocs whilst drinking a fosters in their free hand....:stongue:
| quote: | Originally posted by TuanAnh213
:rolleyes:
how dare you insult america based on a completely biased movie
you can go ahead and bitch and moan about america's gun control even though it doesn't affect you but there isn't another country i would want to be living in right now than america...where i live in its as peaceful and friendly as can be you don't have to worry about walking on the streets at either day or night
what the do you know about america and its society just from watching a damn movie...do you live in america? why dont you visit america some time, make some american friends and actually see for youself instead of thinking up arrogant BS
George W. Bush isn't exactly the problem with gun control, i didn't see bill clinton george bush reagan improve gun safety laws either |
Bill Clinton helped pass an 'Assault weapons ban' that did nothing to curtail violence. It limited things like features on military style firearms, and magazine capacity that have little to do with the functionallity of the weapon. I'm mostly left leaning, but I can see how useless that law is. I don't understand why the dems support it so much; It only causes them to lose big elections...:confused: |
|
|
| DaveSaenz |
| quote: | Originally posted by occrider
This came up in the political forum and here is an EXCELLENT website that will give you more insight into the movie:
http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
Essentially moore manipulated and spliced out many facts to make his "documentary" work. He's as fictitious as the people he critisizes. |
Thank you. I take back what I said about this movi being, "Well done." |
|
|
| Renegade |
| quote: | | This post also reminded me of some recent school shooting incidents that have occured in Germany and Australia.... |
Eh? There's been a school shooting in Australia?
| quote: | | Yeah no . Now I think everyone down there restles crocs whilst drinking a fosters in their free hand.... |
Replace the word "crocs" with "each other" and the word "fosters" with "any beer but fosters" (fosters tastes like cat-urine, no-one in Australia drinks it) and you're on the right track. :p |
|
|
| Neo nEro |
| quote: | Originally posted by Renegade
Replace the word "crocs" with "each other" and the word "fosters" with "any beer but fosters" (fosters tastes like cat-urine, no-one in Australia drinks it) and you're on the right track. :p |
The point was you can't judge a culture based off of one movie. |
|
|
| MisterOpus1 |
Occrider-
Thanks for pointing these things out. It's difficult for many (including myself at times) to take shocking views and extremists commentaries with a grain of salt. It's also difficult to see through certain points of views to see facts. I saw the movie, and also read Stupid White Men. I thoroughly enjoyed both, but it's clear he has an agenda, and it's clear Mr. Moore is an extremist. So his points in his book made about 5/6ths of military budget going to that particular project are easily discredited.
However, other facts are not so discredited in his book and movie, such as up to 98% of shooting victims in the home are innocent victims, resulting in only 2% of those being shot were actually burglars or intruders. This is a true number, which begs to reason why so many guns are allowed. Personally, I see absolutely no value in handguns whatsoever. The idea of self-defense with these weapons is ludicrus, given the previous statistic. I understand and support hunting (population control for example), but only with rifles, shotguns, etc.
And as much as I would like to have the hatchet buried, Moore does bring up some interesting information about the elections in 2000. He also backs this information up in his book with references, and it honestly disturbes the hell out of me. Lastly, I also found it interesting how he bashes Clinton pretty good at the end of his book, and blames a great many misgivings on Clinton's policies and last-minute scribbles before Bush took office.
So again, take things with a grain of salt. Honestly to me, it's no different than attempting to read extremist right-wing propaganda like the London Daily Telegraph or Jerusalem Post from Hollinger Corporation (Conrad Black), or anything from the infamous Rupert Murdock's News Corporation with includes Fox News Network, the New York Post, and 173 other right-wing papers around the globe. (Side note: guess who's one of the directors of the Jerusalem Post? None other than Richard Perle, the former member of Rumsfeld's advisory board and self-proclaimed neo-conservatist). Interestingly, all 175 editors in all of Murdock's papers were pro-war and pro-Bush supporters! Strange coincidence, is it not?
But wait, Rupert Murdock isin't done yet! He's recently aquired DirectTV, which effects only 100 million viewers worldwide, provided it passes through the FCC. But wait a minute, what am I thinking? Oh course it will pass through the FCC! Why shouldn't it? We only have Michael Powell as the chairmen of America's media regulator on board, appointed by Bush of course! Funny, isin't that Colin Powell's son?!? Yet another coincidence? And isin't it also strange of the current debate in the FCC of deregulation of the limits on the number of TV and radio stations a company can own in a market? Boy, who will surely benefit from owning more airtime? Shall we talk about who they are all tied into, and who they all gave vast amounts of money into his particular Presidential Campaign in the Election 2000?
Oh yeah, I listen to a lot of AM radio, but that's probably the most neo-conservatively biased of them all, many owned by Clear Channel from Dallas Texas (yep, where Bush was Governor), which is owned by Bush supporters and one-time business partners of Bush. And what do I get to hear on their stations? Oh a little, G. Gordon Liddy, The Savage Nation (the Michael Savage himself), Brit Hume, Michael Reagan, and of course, Rush Limbaugh. Personally, I enjoy reading a little contrast like Michael Moore from these fanatics who control a vast amount of our airwaves and who are equally guilty of their own particular agenda and propaganda slant. But again, we must all try to take things with a little grain of salt, and do our best to see the truth (i.e. COLD HARD FACTS) in everything spoken through all forms of media outlets. |
|
|
| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by DaveSaenz
This post also reminded me of some recent school shooting incidents that have occured in Germany and Australia.... What's the deal with Germany??? So violent and drunk all the time! I don't think I want to move there....:nervous: :nervous:
:rolleyes:
|
Hey I think you're on to something! Let's make a "documentary" about something like this:
http://www.archive.official-documen...ne/duncntnt.htm
And make broad, sweeping generalizations about English society! |
|
|
| Neo nEro |
| quote: | Originally posted by MisterOpus1
Oh yeah, I listen to a lot of AM radio, but that's probably the most neo-conservatively biased of them all, many owned by Clear Channel from Dallas Texas (yep, where Bush was Governor), which is owned by Bush supporters and one-time business partners of Bush. And what do I get to hear on their stations? Oh a little, G. Gordon Liddy, The Savage Nation (the Michael Savage himself), Brit Hume, Michael Reagan, and of course, Rush Limbaugh. Personally, I enjoy reading a little contrast like Michael Moore from these fanatics who control a vast amount of our airwaves and who are equally guilty of their own particular agenda and propaganda slant. But again, we must all try to take things with a little grain of salt, and do our best to see the truth (i.e. COLD HARD FACTS) in everything spoken through all forms of media outlets. |
While they might be conservative in nature, they are not lying like moore. |
|
|
|
|
