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Changes in Presidential Term Limits
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| Galapidate |
| Clinton can come back to office, but only for one term. The maximum number of CONSECUTIVE terms for a president is 2, plus they can have a third non-consecutive one. But yeah, it wouldn't be a bad time for Clinton to come in and save us all :D |
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| trintiy |
You guys have to be kidding right? Clinton was a horrilbe President! Don't be fooled just because the media loved Clinton and painted a pretty picture of him. I'll leave you with these facts and you can make you own decisions:
Fact 1: The American economy did not grow because of Clinton, he actually jepordized it.
Clinton had run his 1992 election campaign on the theme that the American economy was in the worst shape in fifty years. In actuality, recovery from the mild 1990 downturn had already started by mid-1991, but it had been too slow to convince the public that the country was on its way back to sustained economic growth.
Clinton campaign was to persuade Americans to look to foreign markets for economic growth and new jobs here.
President Clinton even changed a central piece of his foreign policy by shifting away from concern over Chinese tyranny to the "engagement" of Beijing as a strategic partner. China was, after all, the biggest of the BEMs. And in the supposedly peaceful post-Cold War world, the "economy, stupid" was all that mattered.
But financially unstable states, whose people have incomes only a fraction of that of Americans, could not be the economic saviors of the colossal United States. And larger "ambitious" states were not going to sacrifice their own economic development by opening to a flood of U.S. exports.
Of Garten's Big 10, six have sought bailouts from the International Monetary Fund since 1994: Mexico, South Korea, Indonesia, Argentina, Brazil and Turkey. The $30 billion the IMF just gave Brazil is that country's second trip to the well. And it is not that these problems were unpredictable. All of these countries had experienced debt and currency crises in the 1980s.
The first great bailout was Mexico in 1994. The Clinton administration had to act, having pinned its hopes on Mexico in NAFTA. The 1994 Economic Report of the President stated, "Most scholars estimate that NAFTA will create additional American jobs over the next several years because it will boost U.S. net exports to Mexico." Despite the bailout, net exports collapsed; turning from a positive $1.7 billion in 1993 to a negative $29.9 billion in 2001, with entire factories moving south of the border, costing tens of thousands of American jobs.
Even trade with BEMs which did not suffer financial collapse has been disappointing. Net exports to China, already in the red by $22.7 billion in 1993, have only gotten worse, reaching a negative $83.5 billion in 2001. Meanwhile, Beijing has become a more assertive rival to U.S. interests around the world. By sacrificing foreign policy to economic delusion, Washington lost on both fronts.
The American economy grew despite Clinton's trade policies, not because of them. Indeed, America became the engine for world economic growth, especially when most of the rest of the world went into recession after the 1997 Asian financial crisis, the economic meltdown in Russia and renewed turmoil in Latin America.
Fact 2 Chinagate:
When Bill Clinton took office in 1993, China presented no threat to the United States. Chinese missiles "couldn’t hit the side of a barn," notes Timothy W. Maier of Insight magazine. Few could reach North America and those that made it would likely miss their targets.
Thanks to Bill Clinton, China can now hit any city in the USA, using state-of-the-art solid-fueled missiles with dead-accurate, computerized guidance systems and multiple warheads.
China probably has suitcase nukes as well. These enable China to strike by proxy – equipping nuclear-armed terrorists to do its dirty work while the Chinese play innocent. Some intelligence sources claim that China maintains secret stockpiles of chemical, biological and nuclear weapons on U.S. soil, for just such contingencies.
In 1997, Clinton allowed China to take over the Panama Canal. The Chinese company Hutchison Whampoa leased the ports of Cristobal and Balboa, on the east and west openings of the canal, respectively, thus controlling access both ways.
A public outcry stopped Clinton in 1998 from leasing California's Long Beach Naval Yard to the Chinese firm COSCO. Even so, China can now strike U.S. targets easily from its bases in Panama, Vancouver and the Bahamas.
How did the Chinese catch up so fast? Easy. We sold them all the technology they needed – or handed it over for free. Neither neglect nor carelessness is to blame. Bill Clinton did it on purpose.
As a globalist, Clinton promotes "multipolarity" – the doctrine that no country (such as the USA) should be allowed to gain decisive advantage over others.
To this end, Clinton appointed anti-nuclear activist Hazel O'Leary to head the Department of Energy. O'Leary set to work "leveling the playing field," as she put it, by giving away our nuclear secrets. She declassified 11 million pages of data on U.S. nuclear weapons and loosened up security at weapons labs.
Federal investigators later concluded that China made off with the "crown jewels" of our nuclear weapons research under Clinton’s open-door policy – probably including design specifications for suitcase nukes.
Meanwhile, Clinton and his corporate cronies raked in millions.
In his book "The China Threat," Washington Times correspondent Bill Gertz describes how the system worked.
Defense contractors eager to sell technology to China poured millions of dollars into Clinton's campaign. In return, Clinton called off the dogs. Janet Reno and other counterintelligence officials stood down while Lockheed Martin, Hughes Electronics, Loral Space & Communications and other U.S. companies helped China modernize its nuclear strike force.
"We like your president. We want to see him re-elected," former Chinese intelligence chief Gen. Ji Shengde told Chinagate bagman Johnny Chung.
Indeed, Chinese intelligence organized a massive covert operation aimed at tilting the 1996 election Clinton's way.
Clinton's top campaign contributors for 1992 were Chinese agents; his top donors in 1996 were U.S. defense contractors selling missile technology to China.
Clinton recieved funding directly from known or suspected Chinese intelligence agents, among them James and Mochtar Riady, who own the Indonesian Lippo Group; John Huang; Charlie Trie; Ted Sioeng; Maria Hsia; Wang Jun and others.
Commerce Secretary Ron Brown served as Clinton's front man in many Chinagate deals. When investigators began probing Brown's Lippo Group and Chinagate connections, Brown died suddenly in a suspicious April 1996 plane crash.
Needless to say, China does not share Clinton's enthusiasm for globalism or multipolarity. The Chinese look out for No. 1.
"War [with the United States] is inevitable; we cannot avoid it," said Chinese Defense Minister Gen. Chi Haotian in 2000. "The issue is that the Chinese armed forces must control the initiative in this war." |
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| Galapidate |
Fact 1: Bush isn't do anything to jumpstart the economy himself. Sure, he says a huge tax cut would help, but it didn't work in the early 1980s during the recession.
Bush thinks that the huge tax cut will give money back to the people so they'll spend it. First of all, I'm pretty sure not that many people will be spending their money in a shifty time such as now. Also, if we keep borrowing money from other countries, where are we going with this? We are still in the same position as beforehand.
Fact 2: Is China threatening us? No it appears North Korea is. Plus there have been past presidents and administrations that had screwed up big time in some form. The U.S. has always supported brutal dictators (Battista in Cuba, Shah Pahlavi in Iran, etc.), we gave Saddam his weapons that we are now trying to find, etc. If China was threatening us with the technology that we gave them, I'd have a different stance on this, but they're not.
Edit: Oh yeah, and as for the media loving Clinton? They completely bashed him as soon as the Lewinsky scandal started. Compared to some other illegal acts committed by other presidents, this is a small crime, but it didn't affect his ability to be president. Sure, many people accused him of lying and whatnot, but there are other people who lied about WORSE things than an affair. LBJ kept sending troops to Vietnam even though he knew in advance the U.S. would lose. Then there's the whole Nixon Watergate scandal. Plus, Clinton isn't the only president to have a mistress/affair. Even FDR, considered one of the best American presidents, had a mistress. |
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| DrummeRaver86 |
| You know the Bush tax cut is only for the people that qualify for the RICH bracket, like 2% of the population? What the hell is the point of passing a tax cut bill that only the rich can profit from? Don't tell me Clinton wasn't a good President. A President doesn't cause a recession, a President doesn't tell the economy when to go up or down. When Bush Senior left office, he handed Clinton the ecnomy, and we were in a recession. When Clinton left office, he handed Bush Jr the economy and we were in a recession. Concidence?:conf: |
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| occrider |
I think there's been enough clinton/bush bashing to carry us through the next millenium. So in the spirit of the thread title, what do you guys think about presidential term limits. I'm pretty split on the idea but I think I'm leaning towards pro term limits.
I think it's just better in the long run that there's a fail safe of term limits and one man cannot consolide all the power in the executive branch and somehow stay in office indefinetely. |
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| DrummeRaver86 |
| Well said occrider. It's true that the term limits were placed there for a reason, and I guess that so far it hasn't been all that bad. A change in the term limit could result in MAJOR abuse of power. |
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| Shakka |
| Term limits are a good idea, it's a shame they don't impose them in congress. Would be nice to flush out some of the corruptness and bring in some new blood. |
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| LiquidX |
Fact 1: Trinity, I know you are a full on Republican and are full blinded by your party side..its actually kind of funny
Fact 2: I respect your opinion
Fact 4: Please, do a bit more research.. you seem to be right on some things, but really, your stand its just plain...
Fact 4: The media is loving Bush just as they loved Clinton, or maybe is a way you seemed to see it. Like, you hated Clinton and you thought the media loved him, and now Bush is president and I think the media loves him.
Fact 5: Regardless of the Lewinsky scandal, during Clintons presidency, the US lived one of the best times, if not, THE Best time the american people has ever lived. It may not have been CLinton, maybe his economic advisors, geniouses, but it surely happened under his presidency.
Fact 6: Please, shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... dont make a fool of yourself, its just rediculous how you can defend BUSH now.. theres nothing really good coming out of him, except for that AIDS packaged, which seems like a miracle..
And Finally.. YES!!! CLinton would be great for another Term, he would fix the diplomacy, economy, makes us all happy, and from all the experience he gained, and from the mistakes he did, Im sure he'll do equally good or better;) |
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| LiquidX |
Fact 1: Trinity, I know you are a full on Republican and are full blinded by your party side..its actually kind of funny
Fact 2: I respect your opinion
Fact 4: Please, do a bit more research.. you seem to be right on some things, but really, your stand its just plain...
Fact 4: The media is loving Bush just as they loved Clinton, or maybe is a way you seemed to see it. Like, you hated Clinton and you thought the media loved him, and now Bush is president and I think the media loves him.
Fact 5: Regardless of the Lewinsky scandal, during Clintons presidency, the US lived one of the best times, if not, THE Best time the american people has ever lived. It may not have been CLinton, maybe his economic advisors, geniouses, but it surely happened under his presidency.
Fact 6: Please, shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... dont make a fool of yourself, its just rediculous how you can defend BUSH now.. theres nothing really good coming out of him, except for that AIDS packaged, which seems like a miracle..
And Finally.. YES!!! CLinton would be great for another Term, he would fix the diplomacy, economy, makes us all happy, and from all the experience he gained, and from the mistakes he did, Im sure he'll do equally good or better;) |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by LiquidX
Fact 1: Trinity, I know you are a full on Republican and are full blinded by your party side..its actually kind of funny
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In as much as you are blinded by the democratic party? ;)
Really this whole fact thing has become ludicrous. If anything relabel them all to opinion 1, opinion 2, etc. |
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| LiquidX |
| quote: | Originally posted by occrider
In as much as you are blinded by the democratic party? ;)
Really this whole fact thing has become ludicrous. If anything relabel them all to opinion 1, opinion 2, etc. |
IM not blinded, ( hopefully ) its my stand. Some things are ludcicours though, come on, IM talking to the poing of TOTAL blindines. |
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