|
US questions the "morality" of teens attending nudist camps (pg. 2)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| Shakka |
| It's certainly a defencible position if you craft your argument correctly, however in a society where it's easy to blame a majority of problems on the fact that many parents do a piss poor job raising their kids, sending your 14 year old off to "nudie-camp" is just one more reason that our society continues to degenerate into a morally bankrupt one. |
|
|
| Eugene |
This society is not 'degenerating' into anything.
It has been, and always will be, just like all societies around the world -- namely, one that has good people and bad people.
Your argument, Shakka, is akin to the centuries-old statement that old people always make to us youngsters: "In your days, I [fill-in-the-blank]! Where is this society headed?! It's becoming morally corrupt..!"
BULLS--T... |
|
|
| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eugene
This society is not 'degenerating' into anything.
It has been, and always will be, just like all societies around the world -- namely, one that has good people and bad people.
Your argument, Shakka, is akin to the centuries-old statement that old people always make to us youngsters: "In your days, I [fill-in-the-blank]! Where is this society headed?! It's becoming morally corrupt..!"
BULLS--T... |
Keep pushing the limits and we'll see where it goes. Society not becoming morally corrupt?? Are you kidding me? Yeah, we're just more mature at younger ages. So what's the matter with pedophilia anyway? I suppose it's high on your list of "things to engage in before I die"?:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: |
|
|
| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eugene
Occrider, so please answer the following question.
You have no problem with topless beaches like those in Europe, right?
Good. Now consider:
Suppose there are young European girls on that beach, age 16 let's say, who are topless. Is that unlawful?! Is that bad? I guarantee there are boys on that beach who are also 16. So: what to do, if anything?
Oh my God, there will be predators! :eyes:
Vesa - cheers :) |
I never said anything about making anything illegal. I said that I think it's a bad idea, and I'm not going to have any sympathy for parents who let their kids partake in nudist living communities and end up having their kids molested or abused ... because that's what's likely going to happen.
And like I said before, I have nothing against beaches where kids 16 or whatever are going topless. Personally I never really saw very many instances of children (unless they were very very yount) walkign around in the nude. But a topless beach is a very different environment from a nude colony where every human interaction is done in the nude. Such a living environment provides greater risk of abuse than say sunbathing topless at a beach.
If these were children only nude camps than perhaps I would have a more favorible opinion ... except for the fact that most children are immature and irresponsible when it comes to pregnancy and diseases. Hey, if two kids the same age want to have sex and they're mature enough to handle the responsiblities then go at it at age 5 for all I care. |
|
|
| Eugene |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
Keep pushing the limits and we'll see where it goes. Society not becoming morally corrupt?? Are you kidding me? Yeah, we're just more mature at younger ages. So what's the matter with pedophilia anyway? I suppose it's high on your list of "things to engage in before I die"?:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: |
Pedophilia has always existed in this world.
It is just as widespread now as it was centuries ago.
You are very ignorant if you don't understand that.
For example, 200 years ago 7% of people were left-handed, and nowadays the figure is the same -- 7%. Just like with diseases, personalities, crimes, sexual preferences, etc., people have always been -- and will continue to be -- fundamentally the same. |
|
|
| occrider |
| Is this turning into another age restrictions discussion? If so I believe there's a thread a while back thoroughly discussing this. |
|
|
| TranceGiant |
| you can speculate and throw around with phrases like "more rights to kids" as long as you want..at the end of the day I wanna see you when your 14 y.o. daughter asks for permission to go to a nudist camp packed with horny 18 and 19 year olds. I assure you that you'll forget about pseudo-liberalism. I understand that the US is extremely lagging in terms of beind a liberal, more open.minded society but never forget to keep a little bit of realism in your enthusiastic efforts to revolutionize your society. |
|
|
| DrUg_Tit0 |
Now, it is true that kids at that age could easily be targets of pedophiles. But, that's not a reason to make it an obligation for a specific age categorry to wear clothes. If any person wants to walk around naked, it's perfectly fine by me, and I don't see how any non hypocritical person could get offended by seing another person's naked body. I mean, kids usually don't wear clothes at the beach before they're like 6 years or something (at least here), and after 18 people are allowed to walk nude on the beaches again. It is true that the teenage kids are the most troublesome in this aspect, but the solution to that is not to forbid those kids what they should have the right to do, the solution is to remove the pedophiles from those beaches. It's like forbidding people to walk with large amounts of cash in their hands because they can be robbed because of it. Imo, pedophiles who actually go young kids deserve a "torture until dead" sentence, but if that were the case, I don't think we'd be seeing many around. Anyway, what needs to be done is to educate those kids about their sexuality, but not at the ages it is currently being done. It should be done at the pre-sexual age to ensure that kids enter their sexuality educated. If that were the case, I think we'd be seeing a lot less unwanted teenage pregnancies, and those we would be seeing would only be a result of individual person's stupidity, something that unfortunately not even education can help much.
Besides, if a 14 year old kid wants to have sex, that kid will find someone who will fulfill that desire, so bans are not very useful. Infact, I think the more you forbid sex and nudity, the more interesting to kids it becomes. Europe is much more liberal than the US in that aspect, and yet american kids usually lose their virginity sooner than european ones. Basically it is a forbidden fruit scenario where kids want to try sex not because of sex itself, but to see what it is and why it is forbidden for them. |
|
|
| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eugene
Pedophilia has always existed in this world.
It is just as widespread now as it was centuries ago.
You are very ignorant if you don't understand that.
For example, 200 years ago 7% of people were left-handed, and nowadays the figure is the same -- 7%. Just like with diseases, personalities, crimes, sexual preferences, etc., people have always been -- and will continue to be -- fundamentally the same. |
Ummm lawlessness has remained at the same levels as it has been 2 centuries ago? So why bother having a police force? I think things have progressed quite a bit since Hobbes termed life as being nasty, brutish, and short. Left handed???? That's hardly a social issue, that's genetics! Diseases??? I fail to remember the last time there was a global pandaemic such as the spanish influenza that killed 20 million + over the course of 1 year.
Pedophilia has existed before as it exists now, but I think that it's happening to a far lesser degree than before. |
|
|
| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by TranceGiant
you can speculate and throw around with phrases like "more rights to kids" as long as you want..at the end of the day I wanna see you when your 14 y.o. daughter asks for permission to go to a nudist camp packed with horny 18 and 19 year olds. I assure you that you'll forget about pseudo-liberalism. I understand that the US is extremely lagging in terms of beind a liberal, more open.minded society but never forget to keep a little bit of realism in your enthusiastic efforts to revolutionize your society. |
Excellent point.
Let's see what happens when there's a head on collision with reality and ideology. |
|
|
| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0
Now, it is true that kids at that age could easily be targets of pedophiles. But, that's not a reason to make it an obligation for a specific age categorry to wear clothes. If any person wants to walk around naked, it's perfectly fine by me, and I don't see how any non hypocritical person could get offended by seing another person's naked body. I mean, kids usually don't wear clothes at the beach before they're like 6 years or something (at least here), and after 18 people are allowed to walk nude on the beaches again. It is true that the teenage kids are the most troublesome in this aspect, but the solution to that is not to forbid those kids what they should have the right to do, the solution is to remove the pedophiles from those beaches. It's like forbidding people to walk with large amounts of cash in their hands because they can be robbed because of it. Imo, pedophiles who actually go young kids deserve a "torture until dead" sentence, but if that were the case, I don't think we'd be seeing many around. Anyway, what needs to be done is to educate those kids about their sexuality, but not at the ages it is currently being done. It should be done at the pre-sexual age to ensure that kids enter their sexuality educated. If that were the case, I think we'd be seeing a lot less unwanted teenage pregnancies, and those we would be seeing would only be a result of individual person's stupidity, something that unfortunately not even education can help much.
Besides, if a 14 year old kid wants to have sex, that kid will find someone who will fulfill that desire, so bans are not very useful. Infact, I think the more you forbid sex and nudity, the more interesting to kids it becomes. Europe is much more liberal than the US in that aspect, and yet american kids usually lose their virginity sooner than european ones. Basically it is a forbidden fruit scenario where kids want to try sex not because of sex itself, but to see what it is and why it is forbidden for them. |
I think it's too simplistic to attribute Europe's sexual morality to its liberal sexual attitude. Reversing America's sexual attitudes is not going to reverse the problems of retaining teen virginity. I think A LOT of the issue has to do with parenting.
But at any rate, I kind of agree with your arguments ... remove the pedophiles (largely impossible) and eliminate the irresponsible sex, then I'm all for nudist teen colonies ... sure whatever floats your boat!
Haha ideaologically I couldn't care less ... however I'm a practical man so the way I see it, my original statement still holds true. Yay for more pedophile camps. |
|
|
| TranceGiant |
| quote: | Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0
Besides, if a 14 year old kid wants to have sex, that kid will find someone who will fulfill that desire, |
Damn! Didn't work here, you sure about this one? :conf: :D |
|
|
|
|
