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Propellerheads Reason: what I really dislike (pg. 2)
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| Cryogenic |
Cant help but ask about your exact steps for this test.
Volume in Reason, normalizing in wave-editor etc.
Cheers |
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| Trancevision |
JUST GO HERE
To summarize it, some people have developed methodes how everybody can check out how Reason is lowering the quality of imported samples.
The propellerheads argue that the phenomenon isn't there, and it's only a loss of volume. But they promised to fix it ( ... ). :rolleyes:
Lots of people still try to argue "it's the person behind the computer" bla bla bla and not the programm. But you can find out yourself now. The test from a user called Blackworm makes it very very clear how Reason changes samples. :rolleyes:
whatever, this is probably my last contribution to this thread I opened some weeks ago. All we can do is wait if the props are able to improve qualty or not. :)
Trancevision |
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| DJ Chrono |
| quote: | Originally posted by Trancevision
1.
take a sample from favourite CD, put it into any Reason device which can load wav samples and then draw a C3 note or whatever so that the sample is played at the original time and pitch. Be sure that no filter / eq / fx devices are processing your signal. Connect your sampler device directly to the hardware interface ( use cable mode for this ).
Export it. And then analyze it with a spectrum analyzer like in Cool Edit or any other programm: Loss of loudness, loss of frequencies abover 11Khz, often changed drawing of the waveforms ( recogniezable with short normalized sounds ). In comparison with the original sample there is a loss of quality, sometimes audible. :whip:
That's the conclusion I have come to. Maybe it's just me and some sound freaks .
Trancevision |
I tried this test.. I recorded a sound off of my Novation Supernvova, and then imported it into reason and played a C3 note using the NN19.
I then exported it into Adobe Audition.
The volume levels were clearly different, but I just did a simple volume increase of 6 or 7 db so that the two samples would match up, and then did the analysis on both the reason export and the original.
Here are the results:
The transparent wave shows the reason export. The absolute slightest change occurs 11000hz and continues to 18000. It is evident that the wave is the same, it is simply a slight volume reduction. It is evident that reason bottoms out above the 18000hz frequencies.
This test was using a real sample and showed almost no difference in quality atall, besides an initial volume decrease (which can easily be fixed..) and a flat response after 18000hz (which is so high that it honestly has no effect). I don't see reason degrading the sound in any form in this test. After doing a critical listen to both the samples (on my highly detailed Axiom M22ti's), no quality decrease was evident at all. |
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| Luke Terry |
| nevertheless if you are paying that much for the product, you want your sound to be perfect. |
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| The Designer |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Chrono
I tried this test.. I recorded a sound off of my Novation Supernvova, and then imported it into reason and played a C3 note using the NN19.
I then exported it into Adobe Audition.
The volume levels were clearly different, but I just did a simple volume increase of 6 or 7 db so that the two samples would match up, and then did the analysis on both the reason export and the original.
Here are the results:
The transparent wave shows the reason export. The absolute slightest change occurs 11000hz and continues to 18000. It is evident that the wave is the same, it is simply a slight volume reduction. It is evident that reason bottoms out above the 18000hz frequencies.
This test was using a real sample and showed almost no difference in quality atall, besides an initial volume decrease (which can easily be fixed..) and a flat response after 18000hz (which is so high that it honestly has no effect). I don't see reason degrading the sound in any form in this test. After doing a critical listen to both the samples (on my highly detailed Axiom M22ti's), no quality decrease was evident at all. |
I must disagree with you that the significant change at 18khz will have no effect.
The human ear kan register up to 22khz. Strangely enough a 96 khz or 44 khz sample rate will sound better than a 22 khz sample. I think you showed were the problem is. ;) |
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| Massive84 |
oh well quality does not matter for the hobby producers does it?
i love reason, the way it looks, i love using it, tweaks the knobs in substractor etc..., the sounds that the substractor produce is unique in a way.
MK-S making hell of tracks out of it, so is Mr Mystery and many more, i think those people proof, that it is always up to the person who uses a software engine.
ofcource a supersaw lead of a JP will pwns a substractor saw waveforms, but if you use the sounds smarts, you can still create nice tracks |
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| FuzzyGreen |
I think you guys are making a big deal out of nothing. I bet you 80% of people wont notice any difference on most frequencies above 14000 anyway, and even if they do, they wont notice anything missing from your track that they've never heard before.
I think people are using this as a crutch to explain their inability to make productions in Reason sound good. Personally I find Reason sounds 10 times better then FL exports.
BTW, I use Event monitors and a mackie mixing board in my studio so my opinion is based on semi pro studio monitoring. |
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| New Deal |
| quote: | Originally posted by FuzzyGreen
I think you guys are making a big deal out of nothing. I bet you 80% of people wont notice any difference on most frequencies above 14000 anyway, and even if they do, they wont notice anything missing from your track that they've never heard before.
I think people are using this as a crutch to explain their inability to make productions in Reason sound good. Personally I find Reason sounds 10 times better then FL exports.
BTW, I use Event monitors and a mackie mixing board in my studio so my opinion is based on semi pro studio monitoring. |
Oh slam! Put us amateurs in our places! So you're saying I shouldn't worry about a documented problem with some software because you "bet" an arbitrary number of people won't notice changes made above an arbitrary frequency (in a track no onw will hear because the producer sucks at reason)?
Your opinion is ambiguous--on the one hand you speak as though you can reference some standard of quality, but on the other you come to the defense of substandard software. Hmm, can't have it both ways. Either lo-fi rules or it sounds bad. I'll bet you your opinion isn't worth half of what you paid for your semi-pro monitoring setup. ;) |
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| FuzzyGreen |
I guess what I'm saying is that I don't hear any quality problems with Reason. It sounds great in my "semi-pro" studio and comparing it to other softsyths it sounds just as good or better then them.
If you hear stuff (and really care about stuff) above 15000 hz then you probably have better hearing then me.
As for myself I'll just eq a little on more highs into my high hats and cymbols cause nothing else will be up that high. |
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| Tranc3 |
| Most traditional instruments only go up to about 5khz anyways, or at least that's what I was taught... |
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| NeoPhono |
| quote: | | Most traditional instruments only go up to about 5khz anyways, or at least that's what I was taught... |
The 1st harmonic of an instrument may only go up to 5khz, but the 2nd, 3rd, etc. harmonics can get as high as you can imagine. You may not necessarily be able to distinguish between those higher pitches, but you'll notice if they're not there. I can't stand mp3s unless they're VBR or greater than 192kbs for this reason. The loss of the highs (along with their destortion) drives me crazy. I'm a freak anyway though, I can hear TVs and CRT monitors when they're on and (don't laugh) dog whistles.
EDIT: I just read your posts in the "definitions" thread. Sorry if my harmonic talk was something you already knew about. |
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| Trancevision |
| quote: | | MK-S making hell of tracks out of it, so is Mr Mystery and many more, i think those people proof, that it is always up to the person who uses a software engine. |
and Airbase uses it too. You can make a really good sounding track in Reason. But I do not know whether Rewire is used or not, which makes a difference in sound quality too.
But when it comes to clearness in sound, and punching clear basses lots of non - Reason productions seem to sound better. Just my impression ?
Trancevision |
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