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Arggh Somone Has Crashed into my Car ! Pix INSIDE !! (pg. 4)
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| Shagg |
| BTW Iceyone bull on beating any of those cars you listed you stupid . You better learn your place before I show this to those car owner forums especially the rx7 and cobra forums as they will come flame you into oblivion. |
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| MChat |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shagg
Btw Mchat you may want to read other forums such as svtperformance.com lol. Pretty much everyone who posts there has a 12 second or less car and they are by no means trailer queens. |
I'm speaking from personal experience (and I do go to the local track weekly) not from what someone on some forum says his car is "capable of." If I had a dollar for everytime some punk said he has a 12 sec car and either fails to show up at the track or shows up and runs 15's... An '03 SVT Cobra owner found out first hand about 2 months ago that just because his car is capable of running a sub 13 sec 1/4 mile doesn't mean HE is capable of driving the car to a sub 13 sec 1/4. He was so busy smoking the tires in each gear (and fish tailing BAD when he hit 3rd at about the 1/8th mile) and over-reving that he barely managed a high 15 second run, crossing the line about 22 1/2 seconds after I did. With the exception of a handfull of cars, the ones that do 12.5 or better are trailered in. At least the Cobra actually had the capability of getting a 12; most of the cars the keyboard cowboys claim can do 12's are barely capable of 14's.
| quote: | Originally posted by Shagg
Your nuts thinking its cheaper to get a neon into the 10's then say a 85 Mustang, hell ive got videos of 85 mustangs trapping 180 mph with under 50 k in them, and just in case you didnt know 180 mph trap is low 7's. |
Given a budget of about $10k, including the cost of buying the car, I could put a 1st Gen Neon into the 10's. Since most Rustang owners are real proud of their cars, even when they are a falling apart POS, you'd have to spend about 1/2 of that just to buy one. The other $5k could get you into the 12's, maybe the 11's.
And how did we go from 10's to 7's... that's a HUGE jump in the world of drag racing evident by the changes in saftey gear requirements by the sanctioning bodies. Only the pro-FWD teams are knocking on the 7's; no doubt this coming season it will happen. Shawn Carlson and team Mopar have been the closest with a 8.0-something... the problem they're running into isn't Horsepower, its traction. The engine (stock SRT-4 crankshaft, block and head, I might add) is producing more than enough power to put the car down the track in the low 7's/High 6's... it's a matter of keeping the Transmission together and finding the traction.
Also just to be clear, it isn't JUST about horsepower, it's also about weight. Or rather it's about the Horsepower to Weight ratio. For a race prepped (read: Weight reduction) 1st Gen Neon weighing in at 2000lbs with driver, it only takes 300whp to hit 10's. That's a weight reduction of approx 600lbs (which is actually fairly mild). Take the same weight reduction in an average Mustang and you'll need 450whp to hit 10's in that 3000lb (with driver) Mustang. |
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| Shagg |
| quote: | Originally posted by MChat
I'm speaking from personal experience (and I do go to the local track weekly) not from what someone on some forum says his car is "capable of." If I had a dollar for everytime some punk said he has a 12 sec car and either fails to show up at the track or shows up and runs 15's... An '03 SVT Cobra owner found out first hand about 2 months ago that just because his car is capable of running a sub 13 sec 1/4 mile doesn't mean HE is capable of driving the car to a sub 13 sec 1/4. He was so busy smoking the tires in each gear (and fish tailing BAD when he hit 3rd at about the 1/8th mile) and over-reving that he barely managed a high 15 second run, crossing the line about 22 1/2 seconds after I did. With the exception of a handfull of cars, the ones that do 12.5 or better are trailered in. At least the Cobra actually had the capability of getting a 12; most of the cars the keyboard cowboys claim can do 12's are barely capable of 14's.
Given a budget of about $10k, including the cost of buying the car, I could put a 1st Gen Neon into the 10's. Since most Rustang owners are real proud of their cars, even when they are a falling apart POS, you'd have to spend about 1/2 of that just to buy one. The other $5k could get you into the 12's, maybe the 11's.
And how did we go from 10's to 7's... that's a HUGE jump in the world of drag racing evident by the changes in saftey gear requirements by the sanctioning bodies. Only the pro-FWD teams are knocking on the 7's; no doubt this coming season it will happen. Shawn Carlson and team Mopar have been the closest with a 8.0-something... the problem they're running into isn't Horsepower, its traction. The engine (stock SRT-4 crankshaft, block and head, I might add) is producing more than enough power to put the car down the track in the low 7's/High 6's... it's a matter of keeping the Transmission together and finding the traction.
Also just to be clear, it isn't JUST about horsepower, it's also about weight. Or rather it's about the Horsepower to Weight ratio. For a race prepped (read: Weight reduction) 1st Gen Neon weighing in at 2000lbs with driver, it only takes 300whp to hit 10's. That's a weight reduction of approx 600lbs (which is actually fairly mild). Take the same weight reduction in an average Mustang and you'll need 450whp to hit 10's in that 3000lb (with driver) Mustang. |
Are you crazy? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...3&category=6236 look at that 710$ and your well on your way to 10's. Where did 7's come from? They came from the fact a FWD drive has never gotten 7's thats why its so funny. Wait I suppose you think FWD is better then RWD now right? LOL!!
If you think you can build a 10 second neon for 10 K$ Id really like to see that given the fact youll have to replace nearly everything in the car. I guess its a real bitch when your stock tranny isnt even capable of going to the speed you need to trap at to get 10's ey? O wait im sure your stock suspension was built for 10 second runs to. Seriosuly though you are ing nuts if you think you can get a 10 second neon with 10,000$ lol. If you think the PRO FWD race team has 10 K in there car then you are ing laughable. Im sure a pro DODGE SPONSORED racing team is capable of very low FWD times but the fact of the matter is not with a 10 k budget.
You are so ing full of about those races to, if you want I can go post how your 98 R/T supposedly beat a rx7 TT, STI, and Cobra on those forums. Im sure theyll be signing up for this forum in a heart beat to flame your ass into oblivion LOL.
Seriously though I can't believe you think you can get a neon into the 10's for 10 K. you couldnt even buy a SRT-4 with 10 k and none of the other neons would be even close to the 10's with 10 k into them.
Also you talk about ing mustangs breaking down, look at your dam neons, what about the infamous head gasket problems that lasted until when 97? |
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| MChat |
| quote: | Originally posted by SuperFarStucker
I don't see what's so impressive about killing 30 year old cars that are "slighty modified" in your brand new semi-performance vehicle. How do they build v-8's now? |
Hmm, well the "modern" V-8's don't fair too well either, most are slower than the "30 year old cars" A 250hp to 350hp (crank) in a 3500lb to 4500lb car just isn't very quick. If it isn't in at least the 14's stock then it really isn't worth considering for this argument.
Underrated by Dodge... they rated it 215 at the crank. Every stock SRT-4 that I've seen or heard of dynoed at least 223 at the wheels. If it were just 215 at the crank, I wouldn't have been able to get mine to do 13.7 stock.
The new SVT Cobra, finally Ford got serious about making a mean street machine. Too bad the only one I've seen run at the track the owner didn't know how to drive it. I'd like to line up against one with a driver that knows what he's doing... especially after Mopar Performance releases the Stage II kit.
The new Corvettes are pretty quick, about time they started living up to their namesake. Some of the late '80 early 90's ones were pathetic. Mid 14's :rolleyes: I've watched a no-performance mod's added 1st Gen Neon run a 14.2... of course the owner was building it as a race car and had stripped just about everything out of it so it only weighed about 1800lbs... The only problem I have with the 'Vette is where do I stick the kids?
If it's the Cobra, it's supposed to be 320:
http://www.fast-autos.net/ford/fordmustangcobra.html
Not a bad starting platform, if you can find one the owner is willing to sell for less than the car's weight in gold.
| quote: | Originally posted by SuperFarStucker
Granted, your turboed neon is a bit faster than these but :
a.) Mustang GT motors aren't exactly the pinnacle of v-8 power. (although it could be equally conjectured that a neon isn't exactly the pinnacle of inline 4 powerplants) :)
b.) It is naturally aspirated.
c.) Attach a supercharger and you can pretty much blow the doors off any neon with it. :)
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Attach the supercharger to it and watch the stock bottom end introduce an abnormal crank-case ventilation system... For the price of a Mustang GT and the Supercharger combined I could probably build 2 1st Gen Neons that could beat it at the 1/4 mile.
| quote: | Originally posted by SuperFarStucker
I never knew it was a hard concept to grasp that bigger is usually better :) Cars with double your displacement tend to be a bit faster you know, especially when they are carrying a minimal amount of extra curb weight :) |
15psi of boost doubles my engine's displacement nicely :D It wouldn't take much to push the SRT-4 into the 10's either. Probably about $2500 worth of mods would do it (plus some sticky tires). But the SRT is my daily driver. On the other hand, I am building a 1st Gen Neon, All Motor (that means no Turbo, no Supercharger, no Nitrous) that the eventual goal is to hit 10's with. I should have no problems getting it into the 11's for sure. The engine should be going into the car here in the next few weeks. I built the Neon, because I couldn't sell it for enough to buy the car I wanted to build (a mid/late 60's Dodge Coupe and drop a built 440 into); seems everyone thinks their old POS is worth something, even that 318 equipped "Belvedere." |
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| Shagg |
Ya about time those piece of corvettes live up to there name, ing neons been bustin this joint up with all that torque and hp, corvette better recognize. The first corvette almost had as much HP as the neons do now excluding the SRT-4 you stupid lol.
Your ing crazy about the SRt-4 getting into low quarter times like that for 2500$. Im a constant reader of SRT-4 forums and nobody is getting times like that for 2500$. I dont even think there is 2500$ in aftermarket accesories out fot the SRt-4 yet.
I looked at your neon website, your still using the stock tranny which cant even get to a speed high enough to get you into the 10's lol. Better start regearing that sucker. |
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| SuperFarStucker |
| quote: | Originally posted by MChat
Hmm, well the "modern" V-8's don't fair too well either, most are slower than the "30 year old cars" A 250hp to 350hp (crank) in a 3500lb to 4500lb car just isn't very quick. If it isn't in at least the 14's stock then it really isn't worth considering for this argument.
Underrated by Dodge... they rated it 215 at the crank. Every stock SRT-4 that I've seen or heard of dynoed at least 223 at the wheels. If it were just 215 at the crank, I wouldn't have been able to get mine to do 13.7 stock.
The new SVT Cobra, finally Ford got serious about making a mean street machine. Too bad the only one I've seen run at the track the owner didn't know how to drive it. I'd like to line up against one with a driver that knows what he's doing... especially after Mopar Performance releases the Stage II kit.
The new Corvettes are pretty quick, about time they started living up to their namesake. Some of the late '80 early 90's ones were pathetic. Mid 14's :rolleyes: I've watched a no-performance mod's added 1st Gen Neon run a 14.2... of course the owner was building it as a race car and had stripped just about everything out of it so it only weighed about 1800lbs... The only problem I have with the 'Vette is where do I stick the kids?
If it's the Cobra, it's supposed to be 320:
http://www.fast-autos.net/ford/fordmustangcobra.html
Not a bad starting platform, if you can find one the owner is willing to sell for less than the car's weight in gold.
Attach the supercharger to it and watch the stock bottom end introduce an abnormal crank-case ventilation system... For the price of a Mustang GT and the Supercharger combined I could probably build 2 1st Gen Neons that could beat it at the 1/4 mile.
15psi of boost doubles my engine's displacement nicely :D It wouldn't take much to push the SRT-4 into the 10's either. Probably about $2500 worth of mods would do it (plus some sticky tires). But the SRT is my daily driver. On the other hand, I am building a 1st Gen Neon, All Motor (that means no Turbo, no Supercharger, no Nitrous) that the eventual goal is to hit 10's with. I should have no problems getting it into the 11's for sure. The engine should be going into the car here in the next few weeks. I built the Neon, because I couldn't sell it for enough to buy the car I wanted to build (a mid/late 60's Dodge Coupe and drop a built 440 into); seems everyone thinks their old POS is worth something, even that 318 equipped "Belvedere." |
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...item=2455095595
Looks charged to me :)
I really doubt your going to hit the 10's for less than 10 grand but good luck :) |
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| Shagg |
This 1995 automatic, outfitted mainly by Gary Howell but raced by Randy Williamson, ran a 12.401 second quarter mile at 109 mph. The street legal Neon has its stock sheet metal, with a standard stock 2.0 block fitted with custom JE pistons (and necessary modifications to make them fit and work well). The crank has been lightened, with six pounds of counterweights removed, and an ACR DOHC computer replaced the stock SOHC version to get a higher speed limiter without advancing the timing. The head is stock, but ported by Gary, with oversized valves and a Crane 158-0012 cam (using an adjustable cam gear). Howell's own 55 mm throttle body lets more air in, though the stock plastic intake is retained because of its smoothness (the Neon was the first car to use plastic intakes, and they really do work well).
The turbocharger is interesting, being made by Hahn Racecraft - it is the prototype for their Stage II kit, a modified Mitsubishi 16G turbo with 22 pounds of boost and a front-mount intercooler. Howell hopes to eventually get a car down to 9 seconds, albeit not in the street class.
Details on this vehicle are in the Summer 2002 edition of Mopar Now! magazine, and we hope to keep adding information on racing Neons as time goes on.
Thats a 12.401 quarter time with a turbo running 22 pounds of boost, good luck getting the 10's NA or at all you dumbass. If you care to read up go to this website and youll see you wont be getting 10's Na or at all http://www.allpar.com/neon/scca.html |
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| MChat |
There you go then. Personally I think the mid '80 Mustangs are fugly, too close of a family resemblence to the Ford Escort of the same era. I looked around Phoenix at cars that I would seriously consider building everyone seemed to want $4k to $6k for POS that needed alot of work.
| quote: | Originally posted by Shagg
Where did 7's come from? They came from the fact a FWD drive has never gotten 7's thats why its so funny. Wait I suppose you think FWD is better then RWD now right? LOL!!
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I never said that FWD was better than RWD. FWD is more of a challenge to build and to drive. Sure no FWD has done a 7 sec 1/4 mile, however, I believe by the end of this year that will have changed.
| quote: | Originally posted by Shagg
If you think you can build a 10 second neon for 10 K$ Id really like to see that given the fact youll have to replace nearly everything in the car. I guess its a real bitch when your stock tranny isnt even capable of going to the speed you need to trap at to get 10's ey? O wait im sure your stock suspension was built for 10 second runs to. Seriosuly though you are ing nuts if you think you can get a 10 second neon with 10,000$ lol.
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http://www.azchatfield.net/neonproject.htm
About $6k invested so far; which will be enough to get it deep into the 11's. 10's are the ultimate goal and should be within reach with about another $1k. Oh and the stock Neon tranny is holding up fine behind cars runnind deep into the 9's. Granted, they don't last for-ever, but they do hold up. As for the suspension, not much needs to be changed; X-High rate springs in the rear and High rate spring in the Front. Much less work involved than a RWD setup with traction bars or ladder bars or 4 link setups.
| quote: | Originally posted by Shagg
If you think the PRO FWD race team has 10 K in there car then you are ing laughable. Im sure a pro DODGE SPONSORED racing team is capable of very low FWD times but the fact of the matter is not with a 10 k budget. |
Once again, I never said that they did. I merely mentioned that they are on the doorstep of the 7's. Overall there is probably around 1/4 of a million dollars in the race car plus another 1/4 mil in spare parts/engines/tools/etc...
| quote: | Originally posted by Shagg
You are so ing full of about those races to, if you want I can go post how your 98 R/T supposedly beat a rx7 TT, STI, and Cobra on those forums. Im sure theyll be signing up for this forum in a heart beat to flame your ass into oblivion LOL.
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Uh, first I don't have a 98 R/T, you must be thinking of someone else. Second I know of a few 1st Gen Neons that could take any one of the above mentioned cars.
| quote: | Originally posted by Shagg
Also you talk about ing mustangs breaking down, look at your dam neons, what about the infamous head gasket problems that lasted until when 97? |
Uh, where did I talk about Mustangs breaking down? You need to lay off the acid man, you're starting to see things.
Oh and try to keep it civilized, not everyone that disagrees with you is a "stupid fawk." If you have to resort to such childish name calling then it is obviously you that is lacking the intelligence to communicate in an elegant manner. |
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| Shagg |
| Quit picking apart the posts and try replying to the parts that matter such as the guy who is running 22 pounds of boost on a built engine with a FMIC and only getting a 12.401 quarter. Or how about the fact you say the stock tranny is holding up fine, I find that very hard to believe as the stock tranny cant even trap high enough to get into a 10 second run. Seems like when you get proved wrong anyways you always find a way to say it just wasnt for you such as the Mustang not being cool enough (as if a neon is better) or the fact a Corvette doesnt have 4 seats (thank god). |
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| MChat |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shagg
Ya about time those piece of corvettes live up to there name, ing neons been bustin this joint up with all that torque and hp, corvette better recognize. The first corvette almost had as much HP as the neons do now excluding the SRT-4 you stupid lol.
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The '53 Corvette was still pretty impressive in its day. However IMO, the Corvette didn't really make a name for itself until the mid 60's with the introduction of the 427, and especially in 1967 with the introduction of the L88.
| quote: | Originally posted by Shagg
Your ing crazy about the SRt-4 getting into low quarter times like that for 2500$. Im a constant reader of SRT-4 forums and nobody is getting times like that for 2500$. I dont even think there is 2500$ in aftermarket accesories out fot the SRt-4 yet.
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I know of one that very soon will be getting very close, if not into the 10's. He recently dynoed over 400whp and is still working out some fueling issues. I believe he has roughly $2500 in aftermarket upgrades.
| quote: | Originally posted by Shagg
I looked at your neon website, your still using the stock tranny which cant even get to a speed high enough to get you into the 10's lol. Better start regearing that sucker. |
Hmm. MPH = (RPM * Tire Diameter * PI * 60)/(Overall Gear Ratio * 12 * 5280)
10 Seconds Flat is about 135mph. Even with the stock Rev Limit of 7250, (assuming I'm making enough power to hit Redline in 5th) that's about 165mph on the stock tranny. Of course Redline is going to be closer to 10k with peak hp being about 9k, so if it can reach peak hp in 5th that's 205mph... Peak in 4th is 165mph.
Do you even have a clue what you're talking about? |
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| Shagg |
| A neon going 205 mph, Ill give you 150$ for a video of that. Please wrap the camera in kevlar so it will survive the crash, thanks. |
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| MChat |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shagg
Thats a 12.401 quarter time with a turbo running 22 pounds of boost, good luck getting the 10's NA or at all you dumbass. If you care to read up go to this website and youll see you wont be getting 10's Na or at all http://www.allpar.com/neon/scca.html |
This is talking about Howell Automotive's SOHC Automatic Neon... not the fastest Neon by a long shot, not even the fastest SOHC Neon anymore.
You must have missed the entire section below it, including this:
"Len Ayala should get a mention as well. The Hahn Racraft Neon has run the best of 9.44 and 147mph with a 2.4L DOHC engine and 3 spd automatic trans. Len's Neon was the first Neon into the 11s and 10s also without the help of wheelie bars. Len's Neon did 10.55@134 while still a street car that was driven on the weekends; it was contructed on a limited budget and has pretty much remained the same since the 2001 season save for some minor updates/upgrades."
If I recall, you could buy the pieces and "recreate" Len's 10 sec Neon for about $7k.
As for NA in the 10's (and to be clear here, my goal is to get INTO the 10's, meaning 10.8 - 10.9, not 10 flat) Scott Mohler set the record last year at 10.05@135mph. The NHRA Sport Compact series this year should see several All Motor cars in the 9's. |
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