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What is one Israeli life worth? (pg. 7)
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| borron |
Diginut, I can't believe you don't think these are acts of revenge. How can you not think that? It's so obvious.
While i agree that some of the bombers may come from middle class families (if there is such thing in palestine...) and somewhat educated in a nationalistic way, most of them surely come from ruined families. You know, usually the suicide makes a contract with the organization which "sponsors" the bombing (Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc) in which the family of the bomber gets a money compensation and sometimes even more (because the israelis perceived this, they usually destroy their parents home). |
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| borron |
| quote: | Originally posted by anuneventrade
If you're tired of seeing it, then do not post in this forum. This is a debate forum. Not everyone is going to agree with you. |
I never said that i want everybody to agree with me. Now in your words, that's generalizing - i think you are abusing that word.
| quote: | | I did not say at any point in time that people should just "sit on their ass and cry". I was pointing out that your generalization that only the Israilies are at fault is incorrect, and biased. |
I never said i wasn't biased. As for being incorrect, don't say that, it depends on the point of view. There you go, generalizing again.
| quote: | | At no point in time, did I say in any post, that retaliation is not to be expected nor followed through. Nor did I say that retaliation is not a part of war. I was clearly stating that the deaths of innocents are to be expected in any war. |
SO, there's a retaliation. Innocents die. Innocents are expected to die in any war - repeating repeating repeating. I know that, i'm not dumb either, but i just think that kind of situation wouldn't exist if the occupation ended.
| quote: | I do know quite a bit about this war, and other wars. And for educational purposes only for you, I do know the tragedies of war considering most of my family were in death camps in WWII.
Please stop generalizing and misinterpreting my posts. |
I believe you, it seems you're polish and (probably) jew.
I want to clear something up - i do not endorse, support or think suicide bombings are right in any way - i just think they are a cause of something. What is not easy to determine, but as i've said before, i have a clue on that. But now i'm really repeating myself. |
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| DigiNut |
Borron, I told you how I can "not think" that they are acts of revenge. When people are brought up from birth thinking that it's an honour to blow themselves up in a store full of Israelis, then what you are going to get is people blowing themselves up in stores full of Israelis.
There is little else I can say to you except that you seem to be ignoring the real cause. Israel may cause their suffering, but the suicide bombings are not a direct consequence of that suffering; many people live in oppression most of their lives and do not end up violent. In fact, one would logically conclude that the average person growing up in such a situation would be very docile and tame.
Now can we please close this completely irrelevant side-issue? God, it seems like every time the Palestinians do something ridiculous and it gets reported on, someone needs to pipe up and say in their whiniest voice "Yeah but look at all the mean stuff the Israelis are doing!" TWO WRONGS DON'T MAKE A RIGHT, PEOPLE!! |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by borron
I want to clear something up - i do not endorse, support or think suicide bombings are right in any way - i just think they are a cause of something. What is not easy to determine, but as i've said before, i have a clue on that. But now i'm really repeating myself. |
If you want to really question your beliefs and see how they hold up to real arguments I urge you to put them to the truest form of test - read a book.
Read a scholarly book from the otherside, and see how your arguments stand against it.
I would recommend to you "The Case for Israel", as it is easy to read, and you can skip through the chapters to get the arguments against claims you want to hear, for instance skip to chapter 18 and find out "Why Have More Palestinians Than Israelis Been Killed?";
Here is a link for the table of contents:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos...8847232-0040408
You can of course chose other books, and I will encourage you to do so, but if you read one, read it from the opposing point of view, and than if you get your interest stirred see what the othersides says and go back and forth...
But if you are really eager to learn something about this topic, you are not going to find it here in an online trance forum. Books have been the best way to learn about any given issue for hundreds of years that, and I still believe they are more invaluable than any forum debate. |
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| borron |
Thanks for the info.
I usually do that, reading from the opposite side, but just in the internet. Unfortunately nowadays i pretty much don't read books, as i have little time for them. Except for this week, i'm having the worst cold in my life, sitting at home doing nothing, turned upside down... :whip: |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by borron
Thanks for the info.
I usually do that, reading from the opposite side, but just in the internet. Unfortunately nowadays i pretty much don't read books, as i have little time for them. Except for this week, i'm having the worst cold in my life, sitting at home doing nothing, turned upside down... :whip: |
Ya I know... I used to do the same, than I got back into books (I'm sure Amazon.com is REALLY happy) you find out that the net as good as it is, just doesn't come close to the library and literatue found in books and real journals, its like kindergarten in comparison.
I find out that the net tends to flat out lie more than books do, and that they tend to omit much more than books do as well.
So ya, know I'm like a nerd, and try and read at least a chapter a day, its not to hard if the book is good. Books are just like movies though - most sux, but then there are a few of those really good ones that blow your mind.
Oh and sorry to hear about the cold, hope you get well soon.. but go make the of it while you can;) |
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| DrUg_Tit0 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
You are wrong here. My sister doesnt even look middle eastern and she was stopped becuase they found out she was part iranian in decent. Weve lived in Canada our whole lives. Why was she interrogated by Americans? Becuase of her race...the region where she came from was NORTH AMERICA. |
So if she doesn't look middle eastern, then it was not racial profiling, right? |
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| DrummeRaver86 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
In fact, one would logically conclude that the average person growing up in such a situation would be very docile and tame.
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i don't expect you to know this because you're not Arab, but it's in the Arab and quite frankly even in the Turkish nature to not back down. People from this region are generally very stubborn, and when you mix stubborness with extremism, this is what you get.
secondly, stop telling people to get back on subject. are you paying for server space? no. so why does it matter to you if epople have side conversations? it's not your job to respond to every post, so just ignore what you don't want to talk about, and stop whining yourself for a change. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by DrummeRaver86
secondly, stop telling people to get back on subject. are you paying for server space? no. so why does it matter to you if epople have side conversations? it's not your job to respond to every post, so just ignore what you don't want to talk about, and stop whining yourself for a change. |
Oh I see, but when Cyrus King posted a full page of THISHASNOTHINGTODOWITHTHETHREAD in response to VanFleet's irrelevant posts in his thread, that was okay and somehow different?
Interesting double standard you've set. Not surprising, mind you.
(To be perfectly clear, I'm not attacking Cyrus King's response in that thread - just defending mine in this one). |
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| tathi |
| it's good to be a spectator of a flame for once, i hope your proud of me yoepus :D |
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| DrummeRaver86 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Oh I see, but when Cyrus King posted a full page of THISHASNOTHINGTODOWITHTHETHREAD in response to VanFleet's irrelevant posts in his thread, that was okay and somehow different?
Interesting double standard you've set. Not surprising, mind you.
(To be perfectly clear, I'm not attacking Cyrus King's response in that thread - just defending mine in this one). |
i really don't care about what cyrus does. how about you stop taking the spotlight off yourself? i didn't know about cyrus's actions in other threads. and anyway, did you start this thread? why are you acting like it's hurting you in a personal way? and i'm not trying to set any double standards, if you thought that i was trying to defend cyrus or whatever, you totally misconstrued my intentions. Not surprising, mind you.:rolleyes: |
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| Cyrus King |
| quote: | Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0
So if she doesn't look middle eastern, then it was not racial profiling, right? |
When they found out she was Iranian... they questioned her....even though she whas been living in Canada all her life. |
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