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Bertuzzi Apology (pg. 4)
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| Trance Outlaw |
| quote: | Originally posted by contemplator
football is a contact sport, you fight u get tossed prolly a suspension and so is rugby which results in an automatic suspension. i don't get the rationality in that they can fight because its a contact sport... just because you are used to it, and grown up with used to seeing makes ir right??
again teach me i am dying to learn why it is justified...
all athletes should get arrested for fighting period!! |
You're missing the point.....Fighting isn't legal in hockey man. You get a penalty for it.....Some sports just have stiffer penalties for fighting. Fighting isn't accepted among the players in football or rugby so that is an invalid argument. You can't look through a football roster and say "He's the enforcer." But in hockey you can do that with one or more guys on almost every team.....and its been like that long before any of us had an opinion. Although many casual fans can't see the point of it I guarantee you every player knows how important the enforcer's role is.
You can't seriously believe that all athletes should be arrested for fighting? |
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| contemplator |
| quote: | Originally posted by Trance Outlaw
You're missing the point.....Fighting isn't legal in hockey man. You get a penalty for it.....Some sports just have stiffer penalties for fighting. Fighting isn't accepted among the players in football or rugby so that is an invalid argument. You can't look through a football roster and say "He's the enforcer." But in hockey you can do that with one or more guys on almost every team.....and its been like that long before any of us had an opinion. Although many casual fans can't see the point of it I guarantee you every player knows how important the enforcer's role is.
You can't seriously believe that all athletes should be arrested for fighting? |
Football fights happen four five times a year amongst the whole
league, hockey fights can happen up to four or five time a game!!
They shouldn't let anybody fight, why should i get arrested for defending myself, and hockey players can chose to instigate and retaliate?? Huge contradiction ,yet nebody has even come close to convincing me why it is right for them to fight and not the rest of society...
Just because its been like for a while that doesn't make it correct...
Again whats the difference violence is violence, fighting is fighting, if its ok for hockey players to do it why not everybody else?? Are athletes more special, and should have unique previliges to blow up and unleash their anger???
Somebody teach me please...
what does a penalty do compared to a criminal record?? |
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| jdjd |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigitalMP
LMAO...are you ing serious? It is MOST DEFINITELY a cowardly move to sucker punch someone from behind, when they have no means whatsoever of defending themselves.
Afraid of him or not, was he THAT IMPATIENT that he had to jack him at that particular moment? Or did he say, "this guy won't fight me face to face...my only option is to hit him from behind when he can't duck or hit me back. the consequences will be all his fault. here I go...I hope he doesn't see, or he might run away."
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: |
I dunno you guys just don't get it!
He did not want to challenge Moore. He wanted to injure him. His reasoning was kind of what you said, if he does it to his face Moore could run and Bertuzzi might not get another chance to him up.
Why do you think he waited a game to do it? Everyone had a tight eye on Moore that first game, including Moore himself who was probably ting himself in fear and would duck if he saw anything hinting at someone coming at him.
This is not cowardly! This is insurance that he will succeed in injuring Moore. Like I said, Bertuzzi could tear Moore apart in a fight, that's not what this was about. |
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| jdjd |
| quote: | Originally posted by contemplator
Again whats the difference violence is violence, fighting is fighting, if its ok for hockey players to do it why not everybody else?? Are athletes more special, and should have unique previliges to blow up and unleash their anger???
Somebody teach me please...
what does a penalty do compared to a criminal record?? |
Thats already been discussed. Players sign contracts foregoing their right to legally complain of injuries from checks and fights. I'm no lawyer, but AFAIK you have the right to lift charges of assault to some degree. As in boxing, martial arts (where certain weapons are legal).
You have some freedom to do what you want with your body. Consider this, a cop walks in on some freaky S+M types where a chick is whipping the hell out of some guy. You think the cop is going to arrest the chick!? Violence is violence as you say, lock her up! lol |
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| Blue. |
| quote: | Originally posted by jdjd
This is not cowardly! This is insurance that he will succeed in injuring Moore. Like I said, Bertuzzi could tear Moore apart in a fight, that's not what this was about. |
Just because you assume Bertuzzi could have taken Moore doesn't make his actions any more/less cowardly
| quote: | Originally posted by contemplator
Football fights happen four five times a year amongst the whole
league, hockey fights can happen up to four or five time a game!!
They shouldn't let anybody fight, why should i get arrested for defending myself, and hockey players can chose to instigate and retaliate?? Huge contradiction ,yet nebody has even come close to convincing me why it is right for them to fight and not the rest of society...
Just because its been like for a while that doesn't make it correct...
Again whats the difference violence is violence, fighting is fighting, if its ok for hockey players to do it why not everybody else?? Are athletes more special, and should have unique previliges to blow up and unleash their anger???
Somebody teach me please...
what does a penalty do compared to a criminal record?? |
I agree that fights shouldn't happen on the ice and if they do there should be more serious repurcusions than a simple penalty. If you want to fight then go to a sport where it's based on fighting, otherwise hold your temper or don't play the sport, get a boxing bag for the penalty box if you need to just don't fight an especially don't cheap shop other players from behind. |
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| jdjd |
| quote: | Originally posted by trance_n_dance
Just because you assume Bertuzzi could have taken Moore doesn't make his actions any more/less cowardly
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ok
1. Bertuzzi: 6'3", 245, 9 years experience in the league
Moore: 6'1", 210, 2 years experience
2. Moore backed away when Bertuzzi called him out
3. Bertuzzi has been in way more fights than Moore |
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| Blue. |
| quote: | Originally posted by jdjd
ok
1. Bertuzzi: 6'3", 245, 9 years experience in the league
Moore: 6'1", 210, 2 years experience
2. Moore backed away when Bertuzzi called him out
3. Bertuzzi has been in way more fights than Moore |
Uh so if a bigger guy runs away in fear from a smaller guy then by your definition the big guy would not be a coward because he could "take" the smaller guy, am I correct? Or does your definition only apply to hockey :rolleyes:. |
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| contemplator |
| quote: | Originally posted by jdjd
Thats already been discussed. Players sign contracts foregoing their right to legally complain of injuries from checks and fights. I'm no lawyer, but AFAIK you have the right to lift charges of assault to some degree. As in boxing, martial arts (where certain weapons are legal).
You have some freedom to do what you want with your body. Consider this, a cop walks in on some freaky S+M types where a chick is whipping the hell out of some guy. You think the cop is going to arrest the chick!? Violence is violence as you say, lock her up! lol |
What freedom when you defend yourself and you get charged??
So is it the degree of injury and viciousness that permits an arrest, if so i seen people get arrested for much less seen in boxing, or hockey...
But i guess your right, UFC is pretty vicious, but atleast the principles are different from hockey, they fight for the sake of the sport. Hockey you fight over cheap shots, just as in life you fight over cheap shots or cheap verbal shots or cheap respect shots, no difference...
Its not necassary...
So i guess its ok to fight unless you sign a contract, i learned something... |
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| Trance Outlaw |
| quote: | Originally posted by contemplator
Hockey you fight over cheap shots, just as in life you fight over cheap shots or cheap verbal shots or cheap respect shots, no difference...
Its not necassary...
So i guess its ok to fight unless you sign a contract, i learned something... |
It's sunday and now I'm watching a NASCAR race. The point is to cross the finish line first. Pretty simple sport. But for some strange reason I notice the better drivers cutting people off, bumping other cars, blocking people from passing, and using excessive speed. It's not fair!!! They should be held accountable for their actions the same way I would be if I did those things on the DVP. Right????
WRONG!!!!
But honestly this is how your argument sounds. They do these things because it's accepted in that particular sport. Now if you're bumping people recklessly (or to make an extreme point full out smashing other cars) you're gonna get, for lack of a better word, penalized.....and possibly worse.
I think the confusion comes from you believing that what Bertuzzi did constitutes a fight. That's hardly the case. I've fought guys and shook hands with them after the game. no joke. I wish you could see how many guys in the NHL have fought each other, patted each other on the shoulder or whatever, and skated away like nothing happened.
Anyway hope that clears things up a bit and apologies to all for the corny car comparison.....i'm tired. :) |
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| jdjd |
| quote: | Originally posted by contemplator
UFC is pretty vicious, but atleast the principles are different from hockey, they fight for the sake of the sport. Hockey you fight over cheap shots, just as in life you fight over cheap shots or cheap verbal shots or cheap respect shots, no difference...
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Hockey fights are for the sake of the sport also. Alot of people can't accept that it's part of the game.
Take the situation where a huge checker plows over a smaller player and injures him, a legal hit according to the rules. This can't be accepted as it's dangerous while still being within the rules of the game. Then the smaller guys teammate will fight the big guy to protect him.
With the physicality of the sport, the way I see it is that fights are necessary as a sort of defense system for each team. In that way the players regulate the violence in the game, rather than having officals intervening. When fighting gets out of hand, or attacks like Bertuzzi's, that's when the leaugue steps in and keeps things under control. It's the way it's been done since the beginning of the NHL. |
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| contemplator |
| quote: | Originally posted by Trance Outlaw
It's sunday and now I'm watching a NASCAR race. The point is to cross the finish line first. Pretty simple sport. But for some strange reason I notice the better drivers cutting people off, bumping other cars, blocking people from passing, and using excessive speed. It's not fair!!! They should be held accountable for their actions the same way I would be if I did those things on the DVP. Right????
WRONG!!!!
But honestly this is how your argument sounds. They do these things because it's accepted in that particular sport. Now if you're bumping people recklessly (or to make an extreme point full out smashing other cars) you're gonna get, for lack of a better word, penalized.....and possibly worse.
I think the confusion comes from you believing that what Bertuzzi did constitutes a fight. That's hardly the case. I've fought guys and shook hands with them after the game. no joke. I wish you could see how many guys in the NHL have fought each other, patted each other on the shoulder or whatever, and skated away like nothing happened.
Anyway hope that clears things up a bit and apologies to all for the corny car comparison.....i'm tired. :) |
What? how does that make it ok?? What does it really have to do with hockey? a cheap shot in hockey is just like a cheap brush or shove, a taunt in hockey is like talking and acting cocky, cheap shot blows are like somebody going to a guests house and stealing...
Thats still a contradiction, out in society people always wanna fight or up each other without wanting cops to get involve so why do they?? They don't pat each other on the back but both parties agree to participate...
IF HOCKEY PLAYERS CANNOT CONTROL THEIR ANGER WHY NOT THE REST OF US???
At least in Boxing or UFC the intent of the sport if to fight...
This is not about Bertuzzi, McSorley, Matt Johnson etc... This is for me to learn to accept hockey without having the feeling that i have been the victim of a double standard.... |
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| contemplator |
| quote: | Originally posted by jdjd
Hockey fights are for the sake of the sport also. Alot of people can't accept that it's part of the game. |
Just like in LIFE whats the diff?? Its apart of life too!!!
| quote: | Originally posted by jdjd
Take the situation where a huge checker plows over a smaller player and injures him, a legal hit according to the rules. This can't be accepted as it's dangerous while still being within the rules of the game. Then the smaller guys teammate will fight the big guy to protect him. |
So what if a bully picks on my friend and i am the same size as the bully can i not stand up for him??? Without cops getting involved??
| quote: | Originally posted by jdjd
With the physicality of the sport, the way I see it is that fights are necessary as a sort of defense system for each team. In that way the players regulate the violence in the game, rather than having officals intervening. When fighting gets out of hand, or attacks like Bertuzzi's, that's when the leaugue steps in and keeps things under control. It's the way it's been done since the beginning of the NHL. |
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None of y'all have sorted the differences of circumstances that differ from hockey and real life, happens in life too not just in hockey... |
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