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Why does Hardware Sound Better than VST? (pg. 2)
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| alanzo |
| quote: | Originally posted by hey cheggy
Personally, I think that the difference between hard and soft is all in the mind. |
a very good point.. making a great lead from even the crappyest VSTi is all about the FX you throw on it and your own production skills.. pleanty of pro producers don't use any hardware short of a MIDI controller...
my advise would be to stick to one or two VSTis and MASTER them.. I suggest Pro 53 and Vanguard..
or if you want to be lazy use samples (atmosphere).. there are a lot of really good sf2 banks for trance out there that were recorded right from a nord or virus.. |
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| trancenrg69 |
| quote: | | Firstly, softwares just as good as a hardware, you just gotta have the right vst's. I had a virus then sold it when i discovered i could make just as fat if not fatter sounds with VAZ |
| quote: | | Bare in mind though a lot of top producers just use software now and they all previously used hardware, felix da housecat, shokk/flutlicht(uses a lot of VAZ synths), BK(as cheggy said), pretty much all of tidy trax use fruity loops, not sure about the rest but i can guarantee you there will be a lot more |
The 2 most posted bull comments ever. I've heard this load of crap so many times I'm gonna throwup. First of all Flutlicht does use hardware, and although I've read in an interview he uses Vaz, we don't know in what context he uses it, or on which tracks. He may layer it with hardware sounds, he may layer it with other vsts, point is its absolute horse to think an established artist would sell their hardware and use software. If it does happen, I assure you it is less likely than you all think. The internet is a cesspool of rumors and lies.
The best one I heard was DJ Tiesto and 4Strings used V-Station for there tunes cause some idiot downloads the Club4k soundset that has a few presets on it that sound similiar to some Tiestos and 4strings leads.
Another one is , "hey prodigy uses Reason on their new album". What they fail to mention is everything goes through their pro tools setup before final mixdown. Any track can be written on any sequencer, doesn't mean it's gonna sound good. In the end sounds going through digi a/d converters will sound a million times better than on a soundblaster audigy.
SOFTWARE DOES NOT SOUND AS GOOD AS CURRENT HARDWARE!! FACT!!!!!! I;M REALLY GETTING PISSED OFF MAN. HERE IS FACT! A 16 YEAR OLD KID IN HIGHSCHOOL DOESN'T HAVE 3000 DOLLARS TO BUY A VIRUS C SO HE DOWNLOADS A FEW CRACKED WAREZ SOFTSYNTHS AND THINKS ITS THE BEST SOUNDING SYNTHS EVER CAUSE SOME UNEDUCATED DUMMIES SPREAD RUMOURS ON THE NET.
Above & Beyond, Dumonde, Darren Tate,Nu-NRG, Alphazone, Mat Silver, MIKE, Airwave, Andy Prinz,Blank & Jones, Svenson, Ferry, Tiesto, PVD, filo & Peri, Thrillseekers, Lange, Pulser, .... I can keep naming artists all night if you want. Point is these artists have hardware based studios costing thousands and they don't use VAZ for their leads. They use big ass power synths like the Virus, Nord, Supernova, etc...
Personally I hear alot of this these days. Guys on forums saying they sold their Hardware for Software. I bet you half of them are lying and the rest have absolutely no musical talent whatsoever. Obviously nobody told these people that after u open the box and take out your Virus and hook it up, something also is needed that is not stated in the manual. TALENT!
ANYONE WHO HAS BEEN BRAINWASHED INTO BELIEVING SOFTWARE SYNTHS ARE JUST AS GOOD OR BETTER THAN HARDWARE, I HOPE THIS CLEARED UP ANY UNANSWERED QUESTIONS.
and one more thing. the only style of trance where I'd say softsynths can do the job is in Hard Trance. Most hard trance tunes have poor quality, less than stellar mixing , and are not complicated to make. I've heard signed hard trance tunes that sounded so bad, I thought i was listening to them through a brick wall.
The newest crap is this new vanguard. They actually made virus banks for it. It is one if the worst sounding synths i ever heard. But i'm sure a few kids are gonna trade in their virus for that thing. what a joke :rolleyes:
And tom cowan, this isnt directed at you. this is for the uneducated. |
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| Special_K |
If you ever talk to any producer or even look on their websites to see whats in their studios you'll see that they all use a combination of hardware and software synths. Each have their advantages.
Software is sounding better and better, programs like reaktor sound as pro as it gets, You would be suprised at how much software synths mainstream composers use. FM7 is used by just about every producer out there.
Once you get eh hang of subtractive synthesis try some other methods out. Find yourself a good Granular synthsizer where you can load your own samples...sounds pretty amazing. FM Synthesis is so common as well that its pretty silly not to use.
EVERYONE uses a combination of hardware and software. Honstly this whole ing argument is EXACTLY the same as the Turntable vs CDJ argument. Look at when cd decks first started to make its way into the dj world everyone said they would never take over turntables, now look at how huge they are and how much more popular they get from year to year. The newer HIGH end software synths sound pro, and they're just going to be sounding better and better as the years past. |
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| Special_K |
Fact: Phil Western who has done synth programing for Metallica, Bryan Adams, and countless other mainstream projects has said that hes probably going to be selling off most of his hardware becasue of how powerful Soft synths are getting. Software is just as good as hardware. i know because he is My Digital Music Technology Instructor in school.
Here trancenrg69 i want you to read this:
This is part of James Holdens Biography off MoS.
"As a dance music producer, James Holden needs no introduction. The original bedroom producer wunderkind who first burst into view in 1999 with the now classic “Horizons” has in just four years made an impact on the scene of which many and older producer can but dream, with a string of consistently stunning tracks and remixes for just about every label which matters – Loaded, Bedrock, London, Positiva, Lost Language, Direction, Nu Life, Hope, Deviant. The revelation that they were all made using merely a PC and freeware music production software which anyone can download (legally!) from the internet sent waves across the old skool production industry and opened doors for a whole new generation of young producers to follow him."
Not only is he using software but hes using freeware. So why dont you E-mail James Holden and tell him that Software dosnt sound as good as hardware. While your at it why dont you e-mail just about every Mainstream Engineer, producer, Studio manager, and composer out there and tell them the same thing.
Software sounds just as good as hardware, all you need is the right software and good programing skills |
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| trancenrg69 |
| Software yeah for sure. Software samplers, sequencers, compressors, eqs, etc.. those I agree. But give me a break. FM7?????? comeone grow up, yeah like lange or A&B are gonna use a fm7 when they got a virus b or for that matter a real analogue synth like an arp2600, moog, etc.. reaktor does not sound as good as top of the line hardware synths man, go to a store and a/b them. i think some people have serious wax in there ears. |
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| Special_K |
grow up? wtf?? All im doing is stating facts.
and Dont worry i have tryed many hardware synths including the virus series, Ive spent 3 years in collage studying audio engineering and Audio technology, I use hardware as well as software on a daily basis at school. Oh and the FM7 is pretty ing dope sounding if you actually know how to use it. John'00'Fleming uses it, But hey John'00 is no Lange haha. (obviously not for big lead lines but its still in his studio)
Like lange is the cream of the crop in the electronic music world anyway, jeez.
Once again James holden uses freeware soft synths.... is that right there not proof enough that software can sound as good as hardware in the right hands? |
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| trancenrg69 |
Special k, put away your james holden crap , alright. your just another brainwashed zombie. thats all you guys are good for, is too pick out a few producers out a thousand who makes tunes with software and you think that justifies the thousands who don't use software but rather hardware. Mat Darey uses 90% software, A&B use the es2 in logic to make basses. I never said software wasn't compable of making sounds.But hardware synths sound better period. You don't need to layer then 4 times over, they sit well in a mix , not like many vsts. I just bought a Nordlead3 and Ive been listening to trance since 1995, yeah that almost 10 years and i know what quality is and the nord blows awayyyyyyyyyyy any vst i ever heard in terms of sheer sound quality. and ive gigged every vst and hardware synth out there. thats why its 3000 and fm7 is 1 /20 the price. Face facts , it's cause of warez that people use vsts . Go to the music shop and a/b a virus or nord against a fm7 or reaktor or whatever. If you think they sound the same your nuts!
There was a similiar hord of you software whores on kvr blabbing about how zeta is better than a virus. So some guy put up 17 sounds, 8 of which were the zeta , 9 the virus, i got 16 out of 17 right and nobody came even close that getting that many right. why? because i have ears and i can pick out when something sounds better. you wanna join the Holdenites, go ahead, be my guess, make a big hit with superwave p8, ill use my nord and my virus. Hey i got a fake rolex watch off a vendor in new york for 10 bucks. hey it tells time and it looks good. to bad it stopped working after 2 weeks. hardware rules. and by the way holden sucks, i hate his tracks. they are weak and its no wonder since he uses software. |
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| Vert |
| quote: | Originally posted by trancenrg69
The 2 most posted bull comments ever. I've heard this load of crap so many times I'm gonna throwup. First of all Flutlicht does use hardware, and although I've read in an interview he uses Vaz, we don't know in what context he uses it, or on which tracks. He may layer it with hardware sounds, he may layer it with other vsts, point is its absolute horse to think an established artist would sell their hardware and use software. If it does happen, I assure you it is less likely than you all think. The internet is a cesspool of rumors and lies.
The best one I heard was DJ Tiesto and 4Strings used V-Station for there tunes cause some idiot downloads the Club4k soundset that has a few presets on it that sound similiar to some Tiestos and 4strings leads.
Another one is , "hey prodigy uses Reason on their new album". What they fail to mention is everything goes through their pro tools setup before final mixdown. Any track can be written on any sequencer, doesn't mean it's gonna sound good. In the end sounds going through digi a/d converters will sound a million times better than on a soundblaster audigy.
SOFTWARE DOES NOT SOUND AS GOOD AS CURRENT HARDWARE!! FACT!!!!!! I;M REALLY GETTING PISSED OFF MAN. HERE IS FACT! A 16 YEAR OLD KID IN HIGHSCHOOL DOESN'T HAVE 3000 DOLLARS TO BUY A VIRUS C SO HE DOWNLOADS A FEW CRACKED WAREZ SOFTSYNTHS AND THINKS ITS THE BEST SOUNDING SYNTHS EVER CAUSE SOME UNEDUCATED DUMMIES SPREAD RUMOURS ON THE NET.
Above & Beyond, Dumonde, Darren Tate,Nu-NRG, Alphazone, Mat Silver, MIKE, Airwave, Andy Prinz,Blank & Jones, Svenson, Ferry, Tiesto, PVD, filo & Peri, Thrillseekers, Lange, Pulser, .... I can keep naming artists all night if you want. Point is these artists have hardware based studios costing thousands and they don't use VAZ for their leads. They use big ass power synths like the Virus, Nord, Supernova, etc...
Personally I hear alot of this these days. Guys on forums saying they sold their Hardware for Software. I bet you half of them are lying and the rest have absolutely no musical talent whatsoever. Obviously nobody told these people that after u open the box and take out your Virus and hook it up, something also is needed that is not stated in the manual. TALENT!
ANYONE WHO HAS BEEN BRAINWASHED INTO BELIEVING SOFTWARE SYNTHS ARE JUST AS GOOD OR BETTER THAN HARDWARE, I HOPE THIS CLEARED UP ANY UNANSWERED QUESTIONS.
and one more thing. the only style of trance where I'd say softsynths can do the job is in Hard Trance. Most hard trance tunes have poor quality, less than stellar mixing , and are not complicated to make. I've heard signed hard trance tunes that sounded so bad, I thought i was listening to them through a brick wall.
The newest crap is this new vanguard. They actually made virus banks for it. It is one if the worst sounding synths i ever heard. But i'm sure a few kids are gonna trade in their virus for that thing. what a joke :rolleyes:
And tom cowan, this isnt directed at you. this is for the uneducated. |
Those are pure opinions, not facts, don't paint them that way. Because honestly, that entire post was just a huge rant. Nobody has really given any REAL technical reasons why a VIRTUAL ANALOG synth would sound any better than one that just happens to run on a desktop pc's cpu rather than some DSPs.
I haven't seen anywhere where TC Electronic or Universal audio marketed their cards as sounding better than regular Vsti's. The only thing they state is how it takes the drain off of the host cpu. If they do claim that, then great, the virus powercore is better than a normal vsti, but otherwise there wouldn't be a point.
Back up your statements. Really dude, your posts sound a bit bitter.
es |
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| trancenrg69 |
holden is not even langes pinky finger. Holden, what an overated artist if i ever seen one.
Lange/Firewall:
I believe
follow me
memory
drifting away
dont think it, feel it
inter city
reflections
touched
sincere
killmnjaro
and i wont even mention the remixes |
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| trancenrg69 |
| vert first of all tc electronics and universal audio makes plugins not vsts. your gettin into a whole other ballpark. yes they have now decided to try out vsts with the new virus powercore but! the powercore is hardware, not software. it has dedicated motorola dsp chips , thr same ones on the nord and virus b. so basically all they needed to do was program the virus algorithms . the tdm version of the indigo for pro tools sound exactly the same as its hardware counterpart. cant say the same for the vstation in comparision to its hardware version the kstation. same alogrithms, but same sound nope! go test a kstation its in another league. believe what u want, if your happy with your refx.vanguard.1.0.-beat then great. maybe a few people on this forum actually took my advice. |
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| Vert |
| quote: | Originally posted by trancenrg69
vert first of all tc electronics and universal audio makes plugins not vsts. your gettin into a whole other ballpark. yes they have now decided to try out vsts with the new virus powercore but! the powercore is hardware, not software. it has dedicated motorola dsp chips , thr same ones on the nord and virus b. so basically all they needed to do was program the virus algorithms . the tdm version of the indigo for pro tools sound exactly the same as its hardware counterpart. cant say the same for the vstation in comparision to its hardware version the kstation. same alogrithms, but same sound nope! go test a kstation its in another league. believe what u want, if your happy with your refx.vanguard.1.0.-beat then great. maybe a few people on this forum actually took my advice. |
I understand that the powercore is hardware, but so is your CPU. A dsp is just a processor. All the plugins that run on the powercore are similar to vsti's in architecture, they are just written so they are compatable with the powercore hardware. The fact that the powercore accepts new plugins shows this, it is an open architecture, not closed like a viruses, therefore it cannot totally accurately model the physical structure of a REAL* virus. If a vsti doesn't sound good, it is because of the architecture of the instrument, not the vsti platform or the fact that it is run via the system's cpu.
You still have provided ZERO proof or backing behind your claims of "better sound".
Explain me this: why would code processed by a dsp chip sound any better than one processed by an x86 chip?
es |
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| trancenrg69 |
| dude get off your ass and go to a music shop and sit down in front of a virus kc and play it, then come back and tell me if your vanguard or whatever crap vst you use sounds as good. use your ears. thats the ultimate proof! |
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