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If Palestinians Were Killed By Suicide Bombings (pg. 2)
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| trancaholic |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Also I find these two posts highly ironic together:
and
Can we say "double standard", class?
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Oh yes. Definately double standards. In the future I'll make sure that my posts contradict no other opinion made by someone else. On any board. Ever.:rolleyes:
The rest goes for mps242 as well: My post was an attempt at showing how desperately VanFleet's post lacked a point. It basically said that killings by Israelis were ok, because they try to prevent future killings by Palestineans. A "fact" which could easily be reversed (and re-reversed by mps242) to say the opposite.
I furthermore added loaded language to balance that of VanFleet's, and to show that it lends no validity to your point. Whatsoever. |
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| dhope |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
What international condemnations?:conf:
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Apparently you don't read any news magazines nor watch TV :rolleyes:
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One of the problems, another problem is the target of these attacks. Where as Israel target militants, Palestinian targets civilians. If you can't recongize the moral distinction, I'm not going to bother. |
I can't understand the way Israel carries out these operations. In my country, if there were a situation where "a naughty man" must be taken care of, authorities wouldn't do a if there were a possibility of "collateral damage". Additionally, Israel isn't any better than terrorists because they give death penalties without any trial and doesn't care if innocent people get killed as a "by-product". Almost every time Israel carries out an offensive against Palestinian terrorists innocent civilians get killed.
I condemn but I'm not amazed of the way Palestinian terrorists act. They don't have many ways to resist, yet they must be in rage and feel deep helplessness due to negligent Israeli air strikes and occupation.
The main reason why I keep marveling Israeli strikes but don't be surprised of Palestinian suicide attacks is that Israel is operating as a state and I except more from a state than this: "Oh there is a terrorist -let's fire a missile and kill him -wait, there are innocent civilians, too -who cares? -yeah, who cares" --> *click* --> *boom*. (US doesn't show much more wisdom in this matter)
Why can't people live together!!
:mad: :mad: :mad: |
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| Cal |
Easy, US officially supports the interest of Israel, therefore it's media is biased in favour of Israel, meaning in-depth detailed reporting on horrible horrible palestinian terrorist acts, and sometimes as an afterthought on palestinian casualties, without detail.
Hell most people I meet think the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is entirely one way, with Israel suffering as the noble martyr.
Thank Rupert Murdoch for this. |
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| TranceGiant |
Amazing how you (trancaholic) put targeted killings of terrorist leaders and massacres on civilians on the same level. Using the "pre-emptive" argument only makes sense when the threat is imminent and certain. Hamas has proven to be such an imminent, certain threat. Not only by having a Charta which declares the destruction of the "Zionist entity" as a main goal, but by carrying out hundreds of attacks that aimed for maximal destruction of innocent lives, whenever and whereever possible. Hamas' very right to exist is the constant attack on Israeli lives and nothing else.
The IDF never declared any war on the Palestinian people, not even on Hamas. Its main motive is defending, reacting to and preventing further violence. If it where otherwise, the Palestinian territories could be wiped out within 6 hours. So how on earth is the killing of a 16 year old in front of a disco, "pre-emptive"? The threat he presents is neither imminent (he's got two year till army) nor certain (he might work in front of a computer during service ; the IDF as a whole doesn't *certainly* pose a threat as long as it's not responding to pevious attacks). |
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| Flotser |
| quote: | Originally posted by TranceGiant
The IDF never declared any war on the Palestinian people, not even on Hamas. |
IDF never declered a war against palestinian people - true, but it already declared a war on Hamas about a week ago or so ... or at least thats what i understand.... |
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| TranceGiant |
| quote: | Originally posted by Flotser
IDF never declered a war against palestinian people - true, but it already declared a war on Hamas about a week ago or so ... or at least thats what i understand.... |
Nu, shoyn :p |
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| caddyshack |
| quote: | Originally posted by Palestinian
If Palestinians Were Killed By Suicide Bombings
It’s a question that crosses my mind often when I hear about the repulsion against those who strap bombs. I don’t support suicide bombings but I certainly don’t distinguish between the deaths of innocents and more importantly, how the killings take place. |
The Palestinians are terrorists and the Israelis are offensively defending themselvs, which any country has a moral right/obligation to do if attacked.
So I do see a difference. I believe the Israelis just want to be left alone for once. And i think the Palestinians are out of line and deserve what they have coming. You would't sucker punch a guy that could beat your ass would you? |
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by caddyshack
The Palestinians are terrorists and the Israelis are offensively defending themselvs, which any country has a moral right/obligation to do if attacked. |
like the palestinians have a right to defend themselves... |
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| Flotser |
| quote: | Originally posted by TranceGiant
Nu, shoyn :p |
lol, i forgot to add a ':p' |
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| trancaholic |
| quote: | Originally posted by TranceGiant
Amazing how you (trancaholic) put targeted killings of terrorist leaders and massacres on civilians on the same level. Using the "pre-emptive" argument only makes sense when the threat is imminent and certain. Hamas has proven to be such an imminent, certain threat. Not only by having a Charta which declares the destruction of the "Zionist entity" as a main goal, but by carrying out hundreds of attacks that aimed for maximal destruction of innocent lives, whenever and whereever possible. Hamas' very right to exist is the constant attack on Israeli lives and nothing else.
The IDF never declared any war on the Palestinian people, not even on Hamas. Its main motive is defending, reacting to and preventing further violence. If it where otherwise, the Palestinian territories could be wiped out within 6 hours. So how on earth is the killing of a 16 year old in front of a disco, "pre-emptive"? The threat he presents is neither imminent (he's got two year till army) nor certain (he might work in front of a computer during service ; the IDF as a whole doesn't *certainly* pose a threat as long as it's not responding to pevious attacks). |
Please read VanFleet's and my posts again.
My point here is that intent should not be used as an excuse for bad behaviour (as VanFleet's post so brilliantly exemplifies). You can always come up with reasoning that explains bad behaviour. My first post was a similar example of how Palestinean terrorists may defend their actions - and even with your counter arguments I still think it compares: Even if the young boy has two years before going to the army, that day is every bit as certain as the certainty of a "closet terrorist" realizing his ambitions and blowing himself up. And even if the young boy ends up at a desk, he is still actively trying to fight the terrorists at that point - it's just that his weapon is a computer.
For illustration purposes, I'll give yet another reasoning terrorists could use for justifying their actions: Israel is a democracy and Sharon is in power. That implies that more than 50% of the Israeli population has voted for him, and hence shares responsibility for the killings and settlements he approves/orders. Therefore, killing a bunch of Israelis is - with a high probability - a retaliation.
As you (hopefully) can see it is not fruitful to settle who's riding the moral high horse through arguments on intents. What matters, IMO, is only actions, and here we have that:
- Israelis support the settlements, and build the wall on territory which does not belong to Israel. Furthermore, they kill innocents while attempting to get at terrorists in the occupied territories. These attacks are usually carried out in a cowardly manner (i.e. launching missiles into a building). In addition the alleged terrorists are assasinated rather than brought to court and then executed.
- Palestineans have a history of provoking Israelis, and have shown little incentive to reach a peaceful solution when they had the chance (Arafat at Camp David). Furthermore they carry out suicide attacks, which are aimed at civilians. These attacks are cowardly carried out, as the perpetrators come in disguise and seeks out soft targets.
Whether you think the Israeli offenses are more or less disgusting than the Palestinean ones is a personal matter, and I won't get into details on that debate. However, you cannot excuse one party's actions, and that is really my beef with Zionists such as VanFleet (and Yoepus to name another extremist): They refuse to condemn any action of Israel - at all.
I seem to remember that in the past, I've seen both Cyrus King and tranceaholic condemn terrorist acts, yet Yoepus readily admits that he will not condemn Israeli settlement and VanFleet's post is a statement that cannot be misunderstood. You see the asymmetry? |
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| caddyshack |
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
like the palestinians have a right to defend themselves... |
of course they do but suicide bombers arn't intended to defend the Palestinian people. They are terrorists!!! why do some folks defend these people??
I believe there are enogh rotten people in that group so that it warrents an occupation like Iraq to clean up the mess. (Iraq however is a different story) if your neighborhood had 10 people a day being killed by some ass-holes next door, i think people might think differently. what are the israelis to do? just hope they stop??
and if anyone disagrees they are obviously wrong :eek: |
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