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If Palestinians Were Killed By Suicide Bombings (pg. 6)
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| Palestinian |
First I would like to point out that you have 3.3 million people living under an extreme, racist, and terrorist military occupation. These people have been suffering under this occupation for 37 years. They don't have military capabilities, while the occupier is the fourth most powerful military in the world. The people decide to strike back.
The goal of the Intifada is to make the costs of the occupation greater than the benefits.
It is also extremely difficult to destroy military targets. Destroying civilian targets are much easier and costs more for Israel.
Let me point out that while suicide attacks are taking place and while they are not, the rest of the Palestinian population are engaging in Ghandi like tactics (protesting, civil disobedience, removing road blocks, defying curfews etc etc). Palestinian civilians are usually killed in such peaceful actions.
Now let me introduce some statistics:
With the death of Hamas’ Spiritual leader Sheikh Ahmed Yassin yesterday Israel has now carried out 327 extrajudicial executions of Palestinians.
Of this number approximately half of the dead, 160, were innocent bystanders including 37 children and 25 women.
In the three years since the beginning of the intifada in September 2000, Israel has been killing Palestinians at a rate of almost 3 per day.
From 28 September 2000 – 24 March, 2004 the total now stands at 2,936, a number most likely to reach 3,000 before the end of the month.
During its incessant campaign of violence against the Palestinian people Israel has killed 541 children (age 17 and under).
Already since the 1st of March 75 Palestinians have been killed by Israeli forces
189 Palestinian women have been killed since September 2000
87 Palestinians have died due to prevention of medical treatment
30 of those were children (20 were newborns)
113 Palestinians have been killed or died at checkpoints
On the Illegality of Israel’s policy of assassinations, the U.N. Principles on the Effective Prevention and Investigation of Extra-Legal, Arbitrary and Summary Executions are clear:
"Governments shall prohibit by law all extra-legal, arbitrary and summary executions and shall ensure that any such executions are recognized as offences under their criminal laws, and are punishable by appropriate penalties which take into account the seriousness of such offences. Exceptional circumstances including a state of war or threat of war, internal political instability or any other public emergency may not be invoked as a justification of such executions." |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by tathi
british mandate of palestine
who are all these newbies anyway? how come Yoepus hasn't chased them all away like he usually does? :p |
hey?! Don't I deserve some entertainment every now and then too?:mad:
Plus, my adverseries seem to be doing more to convience them to my side than I could ever imageine :p |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by Palestinian
First I would like to point out that you have 3.3 million people living under an extreme, racist, and terrorist military occupation. |
cool thanks for that point :D
oh oh! I also learned a new figure today.
I saw it on Charlie Rose today (I was expecting Richard Perle, and they put on the Israeli Foreign Minister!:whip: If I wanted to see Israeli politicans on TV, I'd go back to Israel :mad: ).
Anyway add this one to your books:
To date, more than 19,000 terror attacks on Israel since the new intifada began.
:eek:
Take that you 3.3 million ppl living under extreme racist military occupation!:disbelief
on a serious note, Pal, the UN law you quoted has no applicability to this case. |
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| Cyrus King |
| quote: | Originally posted by mps242
So what? Munich, the Achile Lauro, and other ongoing terrorism mean nothing? Or is that what you meant when you said they've tried negotiation? Gee, if killing a wheelchari bound cripple is what you consider diplomacy, then it looks like Israel just started diplomatic relations with Hamas... |
Im not sure what you meant by that cripple comment. I only mentioned it becuase I know how evil the IDF are and would like to let others know their intentional killing sprees.
These isolated cases are presented to priovide sympathy. EVERYDAY innocent palestinians are killed. Every month there is a "munich" or "Achile Lauro" in the west bank and Gaza. They are conducted by people in military uniform, which 'legitimizes' it. Dont forget, many people have died "accidentally" ...Israel loves to replace words with different meanings. Everythings always an accident.
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See, the first key to actually attempting a diplomatic solution is that neither party to the negotiation can take the position that the only satisfactory outcome is to push the other into the sea... |
The only diplomatic solution will come when zionists accept the fact that Israel isnt a land solely for the Jews. It was and and should be shared with the palestinians.
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Really? If not giving a about the Palestinian's plight causes extremism, then you'd think there would be wave after wave of suicide bombers attacking Damascus, Cairo, and Amman... |
Im sorry, but your examples and analogies are really not convincing. I fail to understand how these individuals in these cities have anything to do with their own governments and them commiting terrorist acts against them.
If you are refering to the exiled palestinians refuging in these nations, I can elaborate. They are not occupied. They have been driven there. Those countries have accepted them. Israel will never grant them the right of return...unfortuinately. If they do, that is the end of their jewish character.
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Take what? 27 years of living conditions that improved over their lot under Jordan? |
There are no check points in Jordan for those palestinians, no death squads coming in to "rid terrorists" while "accidentally" shooting children. They are not occupied, people are not killed, their homes arent demolished... i can go on and on..
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Really? Since the start of the latest intifada....
nearly 80% of the Israels that have been killed are noncombatants, and only about 1/3 of Palestinian deaths are noncombatants,
3% of Palestinain deaths are noncombatant women, while more than 25% of Israeli deaths are non combatant women,
3% of Palestinian deaths are people over 45 while 25% of Israeli deaths are people over 45,
it's pretty clear who is intentionally and systematically killing innocent people here...
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Are you pulling these statistics out of your ass?
almost 3000 palestinians have been murdered. You are saying that only 1000 of them are innocent civilians?
What is a cambantant...is a stone thrower a combatant..
Even men with guns in Gaza and the west bank have a right to fight these "soldiers" who come in to demilosh thier very homes and shatter their lives.
THEY DO NOT HAVE A MILITARY....they take arms to protect themselves. Israel shouldnt even be there in the first place.
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So? Why is it idiotic to support the only democracy in the middle east, who also just happens to be a longtime ally? |
Supporting a democracy that is bent on occupying a people... removing their civil/human rights as individuals? How democratic of israel.
Vananu is a prime example of how "democratic" israel is. Lets lock up a man in a small cell without proper and fair trial... for speaking his mind about israels secret nuke project.
Lets not forget the obvious second hand treatment of arabs in that countyr as well.
Give me a break.
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Yes yes... I think Palestinians would find they got shot less if they stopped blowing up civilians and preaching hate. You know, negotiating |
Theyve already tried negotiating on a number of occasions.. but zionists are impossible to find truce with. Its just not mediated.
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Well I just don't know what to tell you then. Last time I checked, Israel had no plans of packing up and leaving, nor do they look like they're about to cave to bombings. So maybe it's time to, you know, either have some honor for once and attack military targets like men, or try and find a compromise. But intentionally blowing up a bus full of civilians is hardly a healthy or honorable way of expressing anger is it? |
If you cage a cat witout food or water for days.. and leti t free.. it will go crazy. That is basically what israel is doing to the palestinian populace.
remember... the IDF has been documented many times to have INTENTIONALLY killed civilians. They have just as much hate for the other side than palestinians do....but the difference is that they have the worlds 5th strongest army to use in order to let out their frustration.
I posted an interview with some IDF soldiers and their blunt and disgusting views...u should do a search and find it. youd be pleasantly surprised.
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I don't think I really understand what you're trying to say with this, but I'll try to answer anyway... I blame those who preach the glories of killing civilians. I blame those who celebrate the deaths of innocents, on both sides.
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You blame only the extremists then...how about the ones responsible for bringing rise to these factions? What about the ones responsible for the killings of tens of thousands??? Why can you not blame isreal and those ho preach hate! both have an integral part in what has resulted.
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No one has ever said they have to like Israel. They're free to hate whoever they want. All people are asking is that if they really want to try and fight, then they should fight with honor and attack soldiers instead of cowardly targetting the soldier's wives and children. |
Killing is just wrong. These people have no concept of reality and have been put into a position that has enabled them to be easy influenced and manipulated. look at the root cause of their intentions...not just the action.
Thats the main problem most people have when trying to understand these terrorists... they choose to ignore the reasons behind the atrocious acts carried out by pals.
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Ummm, you've never heard of the Texas War of Independence or the Mexican War? I was hoping to clue you in without having to give you a history lesson. You said that we never stole Mexico's land or occupied its people... You're wrong. That's why I said "Remeber the Alamo?" And yes, there are Mexicans who are still pissed off over it, but you probably wouldn't have heard of them, because they don't use suicide bombers to target civilians... |
those mexicans living in alamo are mot caged, displaced, treated differently, or oppressed like the pals. There are no Checkpoints seperating them from the whites, no wall being built for "security" .. they are given the same freedoms and rights that other americans. That is the difference.
Im sure there would be freedom fighters and gangs if this was happening today.
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How did I change the subject, you're the one that brought up state sponsored terror. I simply asked which state sponsor of terrorism you were referring to... |
you changed it by naming other nations that support state-sponsored terror. I was specifically asking you about Israels terrorist acts.. and you didnt even elaborate your views on it.
You just started reiterate what bush said in many of his pointless speeches.
Iran an lebenon support hizbollah... blah blah blah.. but they hardly have done as mucj damage as the terror squads that Sharon utilized to cleanse pockets of people from places he wanted as jewish.
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Actually, Korea's problem is nukes, not terrorism... |
N. Korea is terror... they are terrorizing their own population..just like Hussein was a terrorist. They both are evil and dangerous. They only differce between Hussien and the Koraean leader is that the asian nation actually has WMD.
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What? Do you deny that Iran, Syria, and Iraq support (well Iraq not so much any more) palestinian and lebanese terror groups? That's not propaganda bud, that's fact. |
They certianly dont go around lying to the world about other countries as a pretext to invade other nations.. then once theyve occupied it, pull back on their accusations.
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Yes, we are the big bad boogey man. It's really rather frightening that we've taken out such benevolent despots as Noriega, Milosevic, the Taliban, and Saddam.... Be afraid Belgium, you're next! |
Its also very nice how you are the only nation to be charged with terrorist crimes against humanity, were the only nation to use atomic bombs on people, and basically have the whole world love you one year and then magically hate you the year after.
You also trained Bin laden, were buddies with Hussein,,, and are still friends with those Saudi's, who have publicly stated that democracy is not in "arab blood" so there cannot be so in their country.
Cant forget the nice friend Sharon you guys have too.
Dont worry, soon he will cross the line, and will become your mortal enemy, but thats if the Jewish lobby disentgrates in the US. |
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| caddyshack |
| quote: | Really? Since the start of the latest intifada....
nearly 80% of the Israels that have been killed are noncombatants, and only about 1/3 of Palestinian deaths are noncombatants,
3% of Palestinain deaths are noncombatant women, while more than 25% of Israeli deaths are non combatant women,
3% of Palestinian deaths are people over 45 while 25% of Israeli deaths are people over 45,
it's pretty clear who is intentionally and systematically killing innocent people here...
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what is the source of this. if its true cyrus king, you're owned, and should leave this thread now. |
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| mps242 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
Im not sure what you meant by that cripple comment. |
Try looking up Leon Klinghoffer...
| quote: | | I only mentioned it becuase I know how evil the IDF are and would like to let others know their intentional killing sprees. |
Yes, because targeting terrorists is "evil" and targeting civilians is "fighting for freedom"... Right...
| quote: | | These isolated cases are presented to priovide sympathy. |
Isolated cases? Are you high?
| quote: | | EVERYDAY innocent palestinians are killed. Every month there is a "munich" or "Achile Lauro" in the west bank and Gaza. They are conducted by people in military uniform, which 'legitimizes' it. |
No. What legitimizes it is when you've got "spiritual leaders" of terrorist groups saying:
"Reconciliation with the Jews is a crime ... If reconciliation means a truce and a cessation of fighting for a specified period of time, Islam allows the imam [leader] of the Muslims to undertake such a reconciliation if he believes that the enemy is strong and the Muslims are weak and need time to prepare and buildup. I single out Palestine in particular, because it is a land of holy places and an Islamic religious endowment (waqf) that cannot be conceded by any ruler, president or king. Nor may any generation concede it, because it is the property of all generations of Muslims until the Day of Judgement.
As for the permitted duration of the truce, many Islamic jurists are of the opinion that it must not exceed 10 years."
(Filastin al-Muslimah (London), March 1995)
- Sheik Ahmed Yassin in 1995
| quote: | | Dont forget, many people have died "accidentally" ...Israel loves to replace words with different meanings. Everythings always an accident. |
Well, it's funny.. But statistics about the conflict bear out that claim that Israel isn't going after civilians. Would be nice if Palestinians could say the same thing.. I would actually support them if they weren't such incompetent losers and fought like men... Or is intentionally murdering teenagers in a pizzeria considered honorable in Islam?
| quote: | | If you are refering to the exiled palestinians refuging in these nations, I can elaborate. They are not occupied. They have been driven there. Those countries have accepted them. |
Palestinian refugees have been accepted!?!?!?! God, this statement is just so blatantly bull it's not even worth correcting...
| quote: | | Israel will never grant them the right of return...unfortuinately. If they do, that is the end of their jewish character. |
Gee, and the only reasonable response is to send suicide bombers into Seder feasts and pizza parlors… :rolleyes:
| quote: | | There are no check points in Jordan for those palestinians, no death squads coming in to "rid terrorists" while "accidentally" shooting children. They are not occupied, people are not killed, their homes arent demolished... i can go on and on.. |
Yeah, Black September was like Mardi Gras, but for a whole month!
| quote: | | Are you pulling these statistics out of your ass? |
No, they’re from the international policy institute for counter-terrorism. Admittedly they’re an Israeli organization, but I’ve looked at their methodology and it doesn’t appear to be biased:
http://www.ict.org.il/casualties_project/stats_page.cfm (most up to date infor can be found here)
http://www.ict.org.il/articles/arti...m?articleid=440 (statistical summary)
You’re welcome to provide statistics or citations to sources that contradict these findings…
You can find more stats at:
http://www.btselem.org/English/Statistics/index.asp
| quote: | | almost 3000 palestinians have been murdered. You are saying that only 1000 of them are innocent civilians? |
Actually it’s 963 Non-combatants, 1282 combatants, 354 killed by Palestinians themselves, and about 120 that can’t be determined out of 2728 total Palestinian deaths between Sept 27, 2000 and March 23, 2004.
| quote: | | What is a cambantant...is a stone thrower a combatant.. |
Not according to the studies I’ve read. But personally, if you see someone with a gun and you’re retarded enough to throw rocks at that person, you deserve to get shot (and a Darwin award).
| quote: | | THEY DO NOT HAVE A MILITARY....they take arms to protect themselves. |
Oh, I *DO* see you point now… A crowded bus in Tel Aviv is SUCH A THREAT that Palestinians need to send someone from the west bank with a bomb strapped to their chest to destroy that bus… Imagine the unspeakable horrors the Palestinians would have to face if they didn’t destroy the bus…
Beware the Zionist public transportation system, BEWARE!!!
| quote: | | Israel shouldnt even be there in the first place. |
Where? In the occupied territories or Israel in general?
| quote: | | Supporting a democracy that is bent on occupying a people... removing their civil/human rights as individuals? How democratic of israel. |
Yes, things must be oh so horrible… especially when considering that when given a choice between Israeli or Palestinian rule, Palestinians rushed to get Israeli ID cards…
| quote: | | Vananu is a prime example of how "democratic" israel is. Lets lock up a man in a small cell without proper and fair trial... for speaking his mind about israels secret nuke project. |
That’s what we kufrs call “espionage.” Most nations tend to lock up people who divulge state secrets… Or, they could follow the Palestinian’s lead and shoot him in the street like a suspected collaborator…
| quote: | | Theyve already tried negotiating on a number of occasions.. but zionists are impossible to find truce with. Its just not mediated. |
Really? Which times are those?
| quote: | | If you cage a cat witout food or water for days.. and leti t free.. it will go crazy. That is basically what israel is doing to the palestinian populace. |
Yes, because Palestinians, unlike the rest of the world, are so incapable of containing their ‘craziness’ that they have to blow up pizza parlors… :rolleyes:
| quote: | | remember... the IDF has been documented many times to have INTENTIONALLY killed civilians. |
And Hamas has been documented nearly EVERY time to have intentionally killed civilians… what’s your point?
| quote: | They have just as much hate for the other side than palestinians do....but the difference is that they have the worlds 5th strongest army to use in order to let out their frustration.
I posted an interview with some IDF soldiers and their blunt and disgusting views...u should do a search and find it. youd be pleasantly surprised. |
One group raises their children with guns and bombs, children's programs that promote a culture of martyrdom (even going so far as to distribute "shahid cards" to collect - "Wow! 19 dead with this guy! I want to be him....") and "summer camps" that devote themselves to physical preparation for battle.
What you do is give them one hope and one focus only: Kill the Jewish state by bleeding its civilians. We're not talking about a few home-schooled nutbags either, the entire Palestinian populace, whether they agree with the militants or not, are being taught this stuff by UN-directed schools.
The other side does not subscribe to this - except of course the hardcore Hebronites and other fundamentalists who deserve a plague of locusts any minute now. Israelis are split, with a significant percentage clearly on the side of the Palestinians right to a state free from Israeli reach and enclosure. You see a concern from half of the Israeli population for their counterparts, even as they've been worn down by constant attack since 1929. Not all, of course, but if you look at the macro-picture you see stark contrasts between populations.
You've seen Israelis forwarding Oslo (before it was made public), the Geneva initiative, etc. You don't see Arab governments or the PA forwarding any plans....they just keep getting invited to the conventions.
| quote: | | You blame only the extremists then...how about the ones responsible for bringing rise to these factions? What about the ones responsible for the killings of tens of thousands??? Why can you not blame isreal and those ho preach hate! both have an integral part in what has resulted. |
Tens of thousands? Blame Israel? For what… Existing?
| quote: | | Killing is just wrong. |
Except, apparently, when it’s killing a jew…
| quote: | These people have no concept of reality and have been put into a position that has enabled them to be easy influenced and manipulated. look at the root cause of their intentions...not just the action.
Thats the main problem most people have when trying to understand these terrorists... they choose to ignore the reasons behind the atrocious acts carried out by pals. |
Those poor poor misunderstood suicide bombers…
| quote: | | those mexicans living in alamo are mot caged, displaced, treated differently, or oppressed like the pals. There are no Checkpoints seperating them from the whites, no wall being built for "security" .. they are given the same freedoms and rights that other americans. That is the difference. |
Really? You’re trying to say that Mexican Americans have been equal in the US for the past 150 years? Do you know anything about history, or do you just make it all up as you go along?
| quote: | | They certianly dont go around lying to the world about other countries as a pretext to invade other nations.. then once theyve occupied it, pull back on their accusations. |
So I this means that you’re not denying that they support terrorism?
| quote: | Its also very nice how you are the only nation to be charged with terrorist crimes against humanity, were the only nation to use atomic bombs on people, and basically have the whole world love you one year and then magically hate you the year after.
You also trained Bin laden, were buddies with Hussein,,, and are still friends with those Saudi's, who have publicly stated that democracy is not in "arab blood" so there cannot be so in their country.
Cant forget the nice friend Sharon you guys have too.
Dont worry, soon he will cross the line, and will become your mortal enemy, but thats if the Jewish lobby disentgrates in the US. |
So Palestinians are justified in strapping bombs to their bodies because you don’t like the US? I know three year olds with a better sense of personal responsibility than that…
Oh, and when, pray tell, is the UN tribunal going to start the trial? Since we have, according you been charged with war crimes, you can certainly provide some links to the UN press release… Oh, and you may want to look up Rwanda, Sierra Leone, Timor, Nuremberg, and Milosovic before you go spouting such nonsense that we’re the only country to be charged with war crimes… :rolleyes:
And for the record, I hate Sharon, as much as I hate Arafat and Yassin. If Palestinians kill Sharon I’ll be celebrating alongside you brother, even if the bomb takes out a few civilians with him. If Palestinians start targeting soldiers instead of city busses I’ll be in the streets protesting Israeli occupation, even if civilians get caught in the cross-fire from time to time. |
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| Flotser |
| quote: | Originally posted by mps242
Oh, I *DO* see you point now… A crowded bus in Tel Aviv is SUCH A THREAT that Palestinians need to send someone from the west bank with a bomb strapped to their chest to destroy that bus… Imagine the unspeakable horrors the Palestinians would have to face if they didn’t destroy the bus…
Beware the Zionist public transportation system, BEWARE!!!
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lol:wtf: |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by mps242
And for the record, I hate Sharon, as much as I hate Arafat and Yassin. If Palestinians kill Sharon I’ll be celebrating alongside you brother, even if the bomb takes out a few civilians with him. If Palestinians start targeting soldiers instead of city busses I’ll be in the streets protesting Israeli occupation, even if civilians get caught in the cross-fire from time to time. |
ohhh! You came oh so close to getting some of my mustard, and then you had to go on and blow it in the last paragraph:mad:
:disbelief
Plus who ever said Mexican don't have it rough has never been to Texas. They have "checkpoints" at exactly a 100 miles from the border on every road. Not to mention a security fence that is the envy of all Israelis, on some unilaterally decided American defined border. Oh and "illegals" as they call them, certainly don't have equal rights with the Americans. .. and yes, they do have Mexican gangs here too, or as you would call them, "freedom fighters" :p |
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| smokeape |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
ohhh! You came oh so close to getting some of my mustard, and then you had to go on and blow it in the last paragraph:mad:
:disbelief
Plus who ever said Mexican don't have it rough has never been to Texas. They have "checkpoints" at exactly a 100 miles from the border on every road. Not to mention a security fence that is the envy of all Israelis, on some unilaterally decided American defined border. Oh and "illegals" as they call them, certainly don't have equal rights with the Americans. .. and yes, they do have Mexican gangs here too, or as you would call them, "freedom fighters" :p |
Oh blah, blah, blah, Yoepus. Get back to the point. The reason Israelis don't send human suicide bombers across the border is because it is morally wrong and mentally stupid. After all, the Iraelis have plenty more means to deal with the subversive than sacrificing their own people to kill a few more on the other side than the one getting killed himself in the process. What do the Palestinians really hope for by sending out their own people as sacrifices to up the count on the other side? I am quite surprised that the Israelis don't just obliterate some settlements across the border to make their point. You can't kill more of us than your own casualties anymore because we wiped you out!
Keep killing terrorist pervert instigators like Yassin. The world will be better off.
:wtf:
[[[smoke]]] |
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| DJ-Kreing^^ |
| quote: | Originally posted by Palestinian
Let me point out that while suicide attacks are taking place and while they are not, the rest of the Palestinian population are engaging in Ghandi like tactics (protesting, civil disobedience, removing road blocks, defying curfews etc etc). Palestinian civilians are usually killed in such peaceful actions.
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I'm sure that none of Gandi's tactics included throwing grenades and self made Molotov cocktails as well as tossing rocks and lynching the opposite side.
:rolleyes: |
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| tathi |
meh, bring back oldschool palestine flames
the status quo just dosn't cut it |
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| Massive84 |
lol take out soldiers?
how with their equipment, sniper rifles, checkpoints..
the terriorism in palastina, aint the same as the one of al quida..
i don't call it terrorism either, it's a war plane and simple, yes innoncent people dieng, but the war in iraq took many many innocent lifes as well, i don't see anyone calling usa terrorist?
the 1 thing i don't get is how people talk here without really checking out the situation, now don't get me wrong i don't like the way of plastanians doing this war walking in a bus and blow it up. but i do understand why.
alot of people that die in this bus support more peace than sharon, because do you really think that the plastanians are the only 1 that are tierd of this? no way..israel is very tierd, the people want peace as well.
once i saw on TV this programm about this conflict, so 1 guy a dad was telling his story and it was filmed.
this is what i saw and understood.
Isreal soldiers were shooting to drive some palastinians back that were throwing stones i think, so this dad was stuck with his son (10 years) between the fight, he was asking them to stop shooting because he was with his son between it, so 1 bullet strikes his son, and he died in his arms( this was filmed) i almost cried serious, after seeing that film, i understand clearly why there is a hamas.
they fight for freedom simple, it takes lives yes and it's sad, but you aint occupied, so you can sit down on your PC with your nice cola and fat pizza and spamm all about it saying yea, hamas fault and bla bla..but your wrong..it's from 2 sides, and if the strongest side wont start sharing then ..this will have no end.
my 2 cent |
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