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Israel question (pg. 2)
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| Galapidate |
| Probably the one reason I could think of would be that Jews need to have a homeland. Every other culture for the most part does, and Jews have lived in Israel throughout numerous periods of time. |
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| tathi |
| quote: | | I've noticed that most of the people who post here on a regular bases are pro-Israeli extremists. |
melech_mike / dj_ilian_yosef is the only Israeli extremist on the board
| quote: | TranceGiant
Secondly the creation of Israel sets a milstone in the thousands of years of Jewish history. For the first time there's an official actual (not just religious, spiritual, metaphysical) homeland. |
Would this metaphysical zion be outside the Matrix near the centre of the earth? :thepirate |
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| smokeape |
Question is not what to do with Israel, but what to do about the festering slum of Palestinians next door. Israel is a respectful nation with rules of civilized society, etc. Yasser Arafat, chief rat and slumlord, can't rule the mess next door nor is anyone else attempting to or even remotely capable of doing so. All the Palesinian slums tend to do is produce suicide bombers and hatred towards Israelis while they can't even get their own act together and figure out how to rule themselves or even act like civilized human beings. A very pitiful bunch and a bunch worthy of mass extermination. I believe we really need the UN to move in with an iron fist (if they have one any more) and put some dang law and order in the place.
:p
[[[smoke]]] |
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| trancaholic |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
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Man, I really don't like what you post in this forum. Very, very arrogant person you are when it comes to politics.
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I just want to balance this one out and say that I value your (igottaknow's) contributions in this forum. I remember when you first started posting on TA, where it was basically humorous comments you posted. This new serious side of yours is a positive surprise. |
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| Cyrus King |
| quote: | Originally posted by smokeape
Question is not what to do with Israel, but what to do about the festering slum of Palestinians next door. Israel is a respectful nation with rules of civilized society, etc. Yasser Arafat, chief rat and slumlord, can't rule the mess next door nor is anyone else attempting to or even remotely capable of doing so. All the Palesinian slums tend to do is produce suicide bombers and hatred towards Israelis while they can't even get their own act together and figure out how to rule themselves or even act like civilized human beings. A very pitiful bunch and a bunch worthy of mass extermination. I believe we really need the UN to move in with an iron fist (if they have one any more) and put some dang law and order in the place.
:p
[[[smoke]]] |
Thanks for the laugh.
i think it would be effective if America mass exterminated racists like you. Oh that would be great seeing bush and his cowboys murdered infront of the world. |
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| Some One |
| quote: | Originally posted by igottaknow
I'm just putting forth the argument that the existence of Israel doesn't provide Jewish people more security especially abroad, now or in the past.
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It just happened to be that every time jews set up camp, it is always on somebody else's land.
Israel happens to be on an arab land, or palastenian land, and these guys are feeling just like hitler did... basically... "what the are these jews doing here, lets get them ing outa here" (sorry for the bad language)
Now with this kind of thinking jews will pretty much never be safe from opression and to prove your point, israel is not a safe heaven for the jews either... BUT it is the first piece of land that the jews have.
Look,
Muslims have the entire middle east, if a muslim wanted to immigrate anywhere, he would be accepted in almost any middle easteren country and can live there without much opression.
Christians have US and other countries that they can live in without oppression. (US is considered a Christian state, the dollar even say "in god we trust")
same goes for catholics and other religions, now look at the jews, they have been opressed everywhere and Israel is the first country that will never allow any kind of opression, and non jews are welcome too.
It happens to be that the land that they are on was owned by muslims and they dont like to share/give up their land, so obviously there is going to be conflict, i mean the only place jews will be 100% safe is on MARS, because no religion has claimed that land yet.
I would write a more indeph post, but I have a test tomorow and really gotta go to bed, although I'll answer any questions tomorow! |
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| YaleTrance |
Since I moved to the States, the vast majority of my American friends have been non-practicing Jewish Americans. There's something about the Jewish ethos that has always fascinated me. I love all of the contributions that Jews made to music, film and American culture over the last century. Jewish American humor is my kind of humor. I can certainly relate to a Jew from LA much more than to a New England WASP. Most of the Jews I know are pretty left wing and not nearly as Zionist as many people here. I guess these are the Ivy League Jews a la Al Franken if you know what I mean.
Nevertheless, I tend to be a supporter of the Palestinian state even if I have no ties to any Arabs. An anti-colonial ideology coming from a colonized person such as myself rules at the end of the day. :p
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
I'm not Jewish. The most I can say is that my family is, so I hear about this issue more often than some. I, however, am a full-blown atheist, and support Israel based on logic, not personal ties.[/COLOR][/FONT] |
If your family is Jewish, doesn't that mean that you're culturally and ethnically Jewish as well? :conf: |
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| Q5echo |
There are many people in this world from slums to palaces, white, black and brown that don't consider Jews to be even human much less deserved of occupying land. They are thought of to be unspeakable things. Millions think like this.
your reaction current events, unfortunately, was realized throughout the entire last century.
shaping this century, coming to a head
I've been drinking. |
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| Yoepus |
Israel was formed for the following reason:
Jews have always lived as a minority under the whim and mercy of their overlords.
Onces the Austrian welcomed Jews, then they massacred them, then they welcomed them again, and then they masscared them again.
Repeat this process 100x with almost every European (and African and Asian) nation where there has been a Jewish population and you achieve Jewish history.
It took the Jews 6,000,000 of their own dead before they realized that they could never betrust in the mercy and benevolence of others. Thats not to mean Jews will not be persecuted in Israel, but it at least means that the Jews will be their own rulers, allowing equality and liberity to all Jews in their naiton.
My great-grand father was an Austrian. He fought proudly as a scout for the Austrian-Hungarian empire in WWI. He was repayed by his countrymen as they betrayed him, and all the Jews in the Austrain empire to the whims of the German (technically the same peoples as the Austrians).
France, WWI was one of the most progressive European nations to Jews. When the Germans came into town (without a fight too), French were quick to point and condemn Jews to the Germans, even before the Germans had asked.
It is not very hard for a nation to betray its minority even under the most ideal conditions when pressed with complete devestation and defeat.
Jews refuse to always be condemned to this vunerable minority.
Its been a rough road for the past 50 years, and its not helping that people like you are making it harder, but I believe Jews the world round are better for Israel having been than not. And if it fails, then they know at least they tried.
What I meant by the USA is this: If there weren't Israel (strategic interest and the commonality and hutzpah demonstrated by the Israeli state) Americans would not be so sympathetic to Jews, and Jews in the USA would be worse off. Jews in the USA became only favorable after the creation of the Jewish state (although this coincides with WWII) and their popularity has stood strong in the USA since then. It was not always such in the USA, and we should be under no dellusion it might always remain such. |
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| Yoepus |
bah i don't think that made much sense.
bah oh well:happy2: |
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| arctic |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
bah i don't think that made much sense. |
Nothing new in your life then Yoepus? :p
Seriosly though, I consider myself in the middle, I support the existence of a Palestinian state, and of an Israeli state. I think that the tactics used by the IDF are often downright stupid, but on the other hand I also hate fundamentalist Islam & the Palestinian terrorist organizations. In short, I think they're both insane. :thepirate |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by YaleTrance
Nevertheless, I tend to be a supporter of the Palestinian state even if I have no ties to any Arabs. An anti-colonial ideology coming from a colonized person such as myself rules at the end of the day. :p |
Sounds like every other protester, thinking to be so smart and independent for going against the grain of society. What you don't realize is that you're no different from the millions of other people who are theoretically anti-colonial but practically colonial - that is to say, those theoretical beliefs are just a feel-good political masturbation and have no physical ties to reality. It's like me saying that I'm anti-technology. :rolleyes: Even if I do hate technology, that emotion is meaningless in any practical sense because I still use it and support it, and saying otherwise serves no purpose other than to stir up controversy and give me something to bitch about. Political dissidence and/or protesting has become nothing more than a hobby, a form of entertainment, a way to get your mental rocks off by showing how "non-mainstream" and "non-conformist" you really are, and all logic and critical thinking has been removed from the process.
But hey that's just one man's opinion. :p
| quote: | | If your family is Jewish, doesn't that mean that you're culturally and ethnically Jewish as well? :conf: |
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "culturally" and "ethnic". First and foremost, Judaism is a religion, one which I have not followed in quite some time. Ethnic generally tends to refer to some kind of ties to another nationality, but my family is 3rd-generation Canadian, it's not as though we came straight out of Israel or any other heavily Jewish area.
But maybe I just don't look at ethnicity the same way you do. Seems like a lot of people consider themselves to be Polish, Russian, etc., even though they were born in the USA/Canada or immigrated here when they were still in diapers. That is not the way I think. If my family is Jewish and I choose to reject that religion and that culture, then I do not automatically become a part of it simply due to family ties - to think otherwise would be highly reminiscent of Nazi mentality, and I use the word legitimately here because their method for determining "Jewishness" was "by blood."
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
There are many people in this world from slums to palaces, white, black and brown that don't consider Jews to be even human much less deserved of occupying land. They are thought of to be unspeakable things. Millions think like this. |
And are you, pray tell, one of these people? I sincerely hope that isn't the case, but the very idea that millions still hold to this backward philosophy demonstrates the reason Israel needs to exist as a Jewish state. Clearly, when anti-semitism is still so rampant, the Jews cannot trust anyone else to take care of them. |
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