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Trance - New Classical (pg. 3)
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| Zombie0729 |
| I am a student studying classical music and the truth is, my professor last semester played trance all the time to our class. I remember one student, she was around 55 or so, had exclaimed after a trance remake of a classic song that, "Mozart would roll over in his grave if he heard this" and my teacher begged to differ. She said that this style of music has such a bright future that shes simply waiting for more classical composers like herself to make the switch. I was impressed, and i went up to her after class and told her I was an inspiring DJ/Producer of trance. She was telling me all these classical producers that reminded her of the minimal progressive, or rather I believe she called it deep house. I was shocked! I mean my professor is probably 55 years old. So I don't know guys, she has got me really excited about the future. |
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| ogvh5150 |
| TA's are everywhere |
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| DJ FC |
I think there are a couple problems with the whole classical/trance argument.
Before I do this, I'm going to state that I love trance music, don't get me wrong. I'm just playing devils advocate.
1)Trance is not nearly as popular today as classical was in its hay day. This was in part to classical music being the favorite of the wealthy and the elite, and that classical music was often the only choice of music allowed by royalty.
2)Trance takes much longer to appreciate than classical music. While I'm not sure if this is just classical conditioning or what, most people will take to classical, or inhearantly appreciate classical music, better than they will trance. To most people trance is just "techno" and it is only for dance clubs.
3)Trance is much simpler than classical, and therefor repeat performances do not attain very much. What I mean by this is that allthough DJs often remix other DJs works, after a time, tracks or sets become old. With trance, you often need to mix it up. This is not true for classical. The same peices have been plaid for centuries by different orchestras and whatnot, and to our ears they are just as beautiful everytime. Less material is required. Simply, trance may not have the longevity that classical may have.
4)Classical is associated with the upper class. Trance is not. While this may or may not be true, there is still the association in many peoples minds along these lines. To deny this fact is futile. Until trance becomes more respected than its other dance genres (many people think of trance/rap/techno, all along the same lines), it will never attain a status that can ensure its longevity.
5)Trance is too easy. I know this one might set off some controversy, but anyone who is willing to be honest with themselves knows that composing trance, or simply mixing it is WAYYYY easier than composing a symphony for an enormous orchestra. Because this music is too easy to deal with, non-musical s often ruin what the truely talented artists provide to the genre. This rarely happened to classical music.
Well I'm sure there's more. Conclusion: At this point there is no way trance will ever held in the same regard as classical, at least by the general public. |
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| Mr. Pink |
I must admit that many classical songs are complex, but so are many trance songs...
essentially what it all comes down to is the composition....the way it is composed and how many layers of goodness each song has.
Will trance be the future classical, probably not...
will trance get more complex, most likely...
will our children call trance in itself CLASSICAL, hellz no..
cuz if they do we'll all be like "listen sony, you dont know . It was called trance in my day, and it's still trance! *slap*"
ultimately, I would have to say that trance can be compared to a modern form of classical, but obviously completely different.
:disbelief |
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| YaleTrance |
the usage of the word "classical" by most TAs is similar to the usage of the word "techno" by the majority of people that don't have a clue. you can't talk about trance in such an oversimplified way, much less about what you call "classical" which is music that has been evolving for over 500 years.
as someone said, "classical" is just the etymologic word for the music composed in the second half of the 18th century, the music based on the rationality and formalisms of the Enlightenment period. the actual classical movement (Haydn, Mozart etc.) was preceded by baroque and rococo among other movements. back then, the divide between popular and "art" music genres in London, Paris and Vienna was practically non-existent.
then came Beethoven in the age of nationalism, industrialization and the rejection of aristocratic formalisms and reasoning of the previous centuries. musical style and structure was altered dramatically. along came Schubert, Schumann, Liszt, Chopin, Paganini, Wagner, Brahms etc. you can't simply put all of these composers in the same category as the ones from the previous or following decades, let alone centuries.
industrialization turned music into a profession and commodity, a capitalist good in the emerging social structure of the bourgeoisie, and genre whoring and significant divisions along these lines came along for the first time. the historic evolution got way more complicated.
the only way you can encompass all of these movements is under the WESTERN ART MUSIC banner. you can't just say that John Cage, Claude Debussy, Beethoven and Bach are all classical composers as if they all belonged to a single unity.
the proper historic analogy with trance comes along the lines of dance music, whether you examine the dance music of the 18th, 19th or 20th century. take for example the rise of the waltz in 19th century bourgeois Vienna. Johann Strauss became the FIRST superstar dj, he would tour all over Europe with his orchestra playing formulaic and rigidly structured DANCE music, tearing the roof off dancefloors all over the place. the waltz (just like other dance forms did before such as the minuet, gigue, bourre, etc) was influenced by art music and crossed-over to classical, but there's no way you can put the BLUE DANUBE in the same category as the waltz in Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique or a Mahler symphony.
The waltz as a dance genre by itself is superficial cookiecutter music, just like trance is today. Was it influenced by art music? Did it have an impact on art music? Sure. Is it better than most of the popular music (folk) from the same time period? It sure is to me. :)
there is also the evolution factor of edm from electronic music forms in the 1960s such as minimalism, which influenced Brian Eno and ambient, which then created the aesthetics for trance.
in terms of complexity, as I said, trance is on the same level as the waltz. other forms of edm are much more complex and are way more in tune with the high modernist legacy of the 20th century masters that absolutely rejected tonality and old conventions of structure (Schoenberg, Cage etc.).
Music in terms of melodic progression and rhythmic experimentation can't get more complex than what Stravinsky and Brahms and Mahler did over a century ago. However, the best type of electronic dance music has the POTENTIAL to be considered Western art music in the future. No doubt about it. I have my own theories over who will cut it and who won't in the future, but i don't want to start an unnecessary flame war just yet.
:p |
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| b4k-oz |
| quote: | Originally posted by YaleTrance
the usage of the word "classical" by most TAs is similar to the usage of the word "techno" by the majority of people that don't have a clue. you can't talk about trance in such an oversimplified way, much less about what you call "classical" which is music that has been evolving for over 500 years.
...then came Beethoven in the age of nationalism, industrialization and the rejection of aristocratic formalisms and reasoning of the previous centuries...industrialization turned music into a profession and commodity, a capitalist good in the emerging social structure of the bourgeoisie, and genre whoring and significant divisions along these lines came along for the first time. the historic evolution got way more complicated.
...the proper historic analogy with trance comes along the lines of dance music, whether you examine the dance music of the 18th, 19th or 20th century. take for example the rise of the waltz in 19th century bourgeois Vienna. Johann Strauss became the FIRST superstar dj, he would tour all over Europe with his orchestra playing formulaic and rigidly structured DANCE music, tearing the roof off dancefloors all over the place. the waltz (just like other dance forms did before such as the minuet, gigue, bourre, etc) was influenced by art music and crossed-over to classical, but there's no way you can put the BLUE DANUBE in the same category as the waltz in Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique or a Mahler symphony.
The waltz as a dance genre by itself is superficial cookiecutter music, just like trance is today. Was it influenced by art music? Did it have an impact on art music? Sure. Is it better than most of the popular music (folk) from the same time period? It sure is to me. :)
...in terms of complexity, as I said, trance is on the same level as the waltz. other forms of edm are much more complex and are way more in tune with the high modernist legacy of the 20th century masters that absolutely rejected tonality and old conventions of structure (Schoenberg, Cage etc.)
...However, the best type of electronic dance music has the POTENTIAL to be considered Western art music in the future. No doubt about it. I have my own theories over who will cut it and who won't in the future, but i don't want to start an unnecessary flame war just yet.
:p |
Interesting ;)
I was thinking about that same point in that the Waltz is essentially similar to what trance is today. How interesting that you chose Blue Danube (being that it's one of my favs --of course next to the great tchaikovsky, vivaldi and the baroque style).
I'll go out on a limb here and say---I have faith in trance and think that it will stand the test of time, and will become what the classics are for other today. We are already remixing and changing the composition of trance music. It is being consistently performed and therefore will eventually be regarded as a classic piece.
Hmm-however, I'm interested to know how you fit in operatic contributions. Is it classical? When we hear something like Ministry of Sound- Trance Nation (for those of you who don't have this--go get it) ...just at 23 minutes into it-after the lyrics "when darkness comes to sun there is still light to save my soul--send me an angel"...then the opera singer kicks into it...do you feel that this particular piece will be regarded a classical piece in the future?
I think definately.
To all the great composers of Trance music--be it hardcore, progressive, remixer etc. I salute you for what your doing and I am greatful that you are there to keep me entertained and bewildered at the same time. :toocool: |
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| YaleTrance |
| quote: | Originally posted by b4k-oz
Hmm-however, I'm interested to know how you fit in operatic contributions. Is it classical? When we hear something like Ministry of Sound- Trance Nation (for those of you who don't have this--go get it) ...just at 23 minutes into it-after the lyrics "when darkness comes to sun there is still light to save my soul--send me an angel"...then the opera singer kicks into it...do you feel that this particular piece will be regarded a classical piece in the future?
I think definately. |
Just because there is operatic singing I wouldn't consider it "classical" or Western art music that could stand the test of time. It is evidence of a cross-over influence between opera and trance, but that alone is not sufficient make it a meaningful piece of art. I don't know what track you're talking about though.
For example, Jurgen Vries-The Opera Song is very shallow and Charlotte Church is a mediocre pop-era singer imo. Nothing special about that track.
I would go more along the lines of tracks such as Age of Love, Xpander, Face to Face, Magik Journey when talking about the classics of the future. But maybe that's my anti-vocals bias speaking.
And of course, mix compilations and livesets as a whole that are truly outstanding have a symphonic monumentality that would put them up in the classics book. In classical music, 6 minute pieces hardly make it to the canon. It's all about long, well thought out works such as sonatas, concertos, symphonies, tone poems, etc. There are exceptions (like Chopin concert pieces), but eloquent grandiosity is what put composers in the map,not just a song. For that reason, stuff like Oakey's EM World Tour will make it to the canon but not the individual tracks. Those amazing Tiesto and PvD sets from 1999-2000 will definitely live on forever as classics. Not to mention stuff like GU013 or Airdrawndagger or OTAB. True wholesome works of genius.
This is just my personal opinion and it is very subjective. For example, I wouldn't put up anything by Armin in this level, and maybe a few old tracks by Ferry, but that's it. Artistically there are many different levels in edm. |
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| b4k-oz |
| quote: | Originally posted by YaleTrance
...And of course, mix compilations and livesets as a whole that are truly outstanding have a symphonic monumentality that would put them up in the classics book... |
That's exactly my point...Ministry of Sound-Trance Nation Harder (mixed by judge jules) is a compilation...it's sure to be a classic and not just because of the operatic contribution, but because it encompasses so much more.
Just my opin :D |
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| b4k-oz |
Oh, I meant to write Ministry of Sound Trance Nation 3 mixed by Ferry Corsten-System F
Trance Nation Harder is also a good one--Judge Jules rules in his own class :D |
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| mndeg |
as long as it has a bassline the average brainwashed top20 listener wont accept it
WHATS THAT? BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM that's all they can hear, its like a hearing limitation |
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| SuckUpMySenses |
| quote: | Originally posted by mndeg
as long as it has a bassline the average brainwashed top20 listener wont accept it
WHATS THAT? BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM that's all they can hear, its like a hearing limitation |
ahahahahaaaa |
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| Delerium1997 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Roquer
What scares me is that in 60 years all the oldie stations will be playing rap. |
I can't wait to be grooving to some great industrial or gothic tunes when I'm in my 70s. Talk that NIN or Duran Duran or Depeche Mode are real music and KMFDM or Skinny Puppy are pioneers of electronic music. |
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