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British commanders condemn US tactics (pg. 16)
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
I find it odd the way some people think. "If we stop attacking them, they'll listen to us", or some such nonsense.
It's always the same thing - if we just slow down a little, if we just be a little more diplomatic, then the real world will suddenly turn into an ideal world where everyone wants to live in peace and harmony.
I'd be curious to see examples of past instances where this "diplomacy" and "cautiousness" has accomplished anything productive. Damn hippies. Look at us, look at our biology, we evolved as a fighting species! Conflict is in our nature. Sure, war is not "nice", I wouldn't want to have to fight on the front lines, but that's all the more reason to admire the people who are brave enough to do so. |
How many times do I have to say this?!...
N o r t h e r n I r e l a n d
(In fact, if you look at other situatins like this, can you name me any where using more and more force has actually achieved the aims? Israel, Chechnya, Kashmir spring to mind of examples where your opinion gets turned over on its arse! But hey, I guess I've just made a huge fallacy right?) |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Wow, if that's how Brits think then they really do suck as soldiers.
Dude, once you get shot at, it's probably too late. This isn't a hollywood movie where the enemies can't aim their guns and fire 15 shots at you without ever hitting you. If you wait for them to fire, you're probably going to die.
And if the Americans said the British soldiers were "in the way", and that is the way British soldiers think, then I can understand the American position, since they probably have to spend half their time protecting those idiots who refuse to fire at anyone because they *just might* hit a civilian.
I'm surprised - for someone with so many friends out there in military service, you seem to have no conception, not even an imagination, of what it's like to be out there. |
Ha ha! Lets all point and laugh at the silly CANADIAN who is trying to tell us that British soldiers "suck" (YEEEEEEHAAAAAA!!!!)
No seriously tho, if soldiers can do what you have described above (which is how I hope our soldiers are trained, and something I suspect happens after a talk from a British soldier who served in Bosnia) then that actually makes them really really good! Just shows how much more effective and proffessional we actually are! Hope our troops do have that attitude... |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
LOL, that's the best line I've heard so far.
What are you saying, that every soldier should just stand around waiting to be killed because taking any action would be murder? How can you advocate passivity in a war zone!? |
Wait for it! Wait for it!......
F..
Fa.....!
Actually, looking at how ed up Fullajah is thanks to the cowboys, I can quite easily advocate passivity in a war zone... |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Ha ha! Lets all point and laugh at the silly CANADIAN who is trying to tell us that British soldiers "suck" (YEEEEEEHAAAAAA!!!!) |
Don't think for a minute that I have any respect for the Canadian military, or many other things about Canada. Just because I live here doesn't mean I'm overwhelmed with patriotic pride.
| quote: | | No seriously tho, if soldiers can do what you have described above (which is how I hope our soldiers are trained, and something I suspect happens after a talk from a British soldier who served in Bosnia) then that actually makes them really really good! Just shows how much more effective and proffessional we actually are! Hope our troops do have that attitude... |
No, it makes them completely ineffective, because if that were the case, then the only thing the enemy soldiers (or terrorists or whatever) would have to do is not specifically attack the soldiers, and they'd have free reign. In fact, if they targeted all their attacks on civilians instead of soldiers, then technically the soldiers should never shoot because they haven't personally been fired at. Very effective strategy indeed. :rolleyes: |
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| Dervish |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
No, it makes them completely ineffective, because if that were the case, then the only thing the enemy soldiers (or terrorists or whatever) would have to do is not specifically attack the soldiers, and they'd have free reign. In fact, if they targeted all their attacks on civilians instead of soldiers, then technically the soldiers should never shoot because they haven't personally been fired at. Very effective strategy indeed. :rolleyes: [/COLOR][/FONT] |
What are you talking about? I don't understand what you are trying to say. |
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| DjSway |
Hey Dervish,
I dare you to join the army and get shipped to Iraq. Do a nice tour of duty there, come back (body bag optional) and tell us what your think then.
I guarantee you that your mind will change.
Any foreigners is in danger of being killed in Iraq, especially soldiers from any nations. They have to be vigilante every second and moment. The enemy can be anywhere and anyone. Try to live like that in a foreign county, not knowing if you're going to die the next second. Lets see how "friendly" you will be. Civialian casualties is bad, but this is war not some love parade! |
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| Dervish |
| quote: | Originally posted by DjSway
Hey Dervish,
I dare you to join the army and get shipped to Iraq. Do a nice tour of duty there, come back (body bag optional) and tell us what your think then.
I guarantee you that your mind will change.
Any foreigners is in danger of being killed in Iraq, especially soldiers from any nations. They have to be vigilante every second and moment. The enemy can be anywhere and anyone. Try to live like that in a foreign county, not knowing if you're going to die the next second. Lets see how "friendly" you will be. Civialian casualties is bad, but this is war not some love parade! |
Yeah but the whole point is. Indiscriminate shooting and shoot "in doubt" firstly are illegal and secondly will result in more "body bags". And right now I'm at uni and I've considered joining the navy and air force when I leave. If your such an authority on it why don't you join up? |
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| dukes |
| quote: | Originally posted by DjSway
Hey Dervish,
I dare you to join the army and get shipped to Iraq. Do a nice tour of duty there, come back (body bag optional) and tell us what your think then.
I guarantee you that your mind will change.
Any foreigners is in danger of being killed in Iraq, especially soldiers from any nations. They have to be vigilante every second and moment. The enemy can be anywhere and anyone. Try to live like that in a foreign county, not knowing if you're going to die the next second. Lets see how "friendly" you will be. Civialian casualties is bad, but this is war not some love parade! |
the thing is the only diferance between iraq and northern ireland is that iraq is bigger
the uk troops proved in N.Ireland that being agressive is counterproductive. not a good enough example...how about 2 examples. Kosovo same aproach as N.Ireland and just as efective kind of proving agressive is not always best.
i think the U.S comanders should try and learn some of these methods and not be so gung-ho in there methods. |
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| xKaoSx |
| quote: | Originally posted by dukes
the thing is the only diferance between iraq and northern ireland is that iraq is bigger
the uk troops proved in N.Ireland that being agressive is counterproductive. not a good enough example...how about 2 examples. Kosovo same aproach as N.Ireland and just as efective kind of proving agressive is not always best.
i think the U.S comanders should try and learn some of these methods and not be so gung-ho in there methods. |
OR
They're just pussies and afraid to die and dont want conflict and afraid of confrontation and would rather be dictated to on how to act AND AND AND AND......
God where do I stop... |
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| Dervish |
| Well lets put it this way, Kosavo and NI are fine now. NI took ages yes, but lets put it this way no where near 700 uk troops died and more importantly no whwre near 10,000 civys died. It took a long time but less people died. Yes iraq is bigger and yes the people are differnt but the task is the same. The uk troops have more experiance. The us troops are in a harder postion yes, but they have I belive made it even more difficult for themselfs. |
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| xKaoSx |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dervish
Well lets put it this way, Kosavo and NI are fine now. NI took ages yes, but lets put it this way no where near 700 uk troops died and more importantly no whwre near 10,000 civys died. It took a long time but less people died. Yes iraq is bigger and yes the people are differnt but the task is the same. The uk troops have more experiance. The us troops are in a harder postion yes, but they have I belive made it even more difficult for themselfs. |
You said it yourself- the people are "different" - I would reason to believe the people in Kosavo and NI are a little more "intelligent" and can be reasoned with.
People in Iraq are quite honestly brainwashed for the most part dont want to hear anything from anyone outside and just want everyone dead but them. |
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| dukes |
| quote: | Originally posted by xKaoSx
You said it yourself- the people are "different" - I would reason to believe the people in Kosavo and NI are a little more "intelligent" and can be reasoned with.
People in Iraq are quite honestly brainwashed for the most part dont want to hear anything from anyone outside and just want everyone dead but them. |
if the people in iraq are brainwashed then so were the people in NI. there was the same passion for their cause in both cases. and the same methods of recruting and havign "fighting for the cause" as a way of life and upbringing.
do you really understand what NI was about and like? because by the sonds of things you have no idea.
we have tried being agressive and passive and have prooved to ourselves that the passive gets the job done keeping the publitc onside and being effective. these are tried and tested methods that you seem to pawn off as false. |
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