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Big Brother (pg. 9)
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| bragi |
| quote: | Originally posted by Paulie
Werd, much the same way as my parents.
One more thing. Before you criticise an Australian Government Merlin, how bout forgeoing your european passport, how bout becoming eligible to vote ;)
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How exactly is that any different than an Australian criticising the policies of a foreign government?
Oh for example, I don't know, by being maybe a member of Amnesty? Or perhaps joining an illegal war against a foreign power on shaky proof of wrongdoing? |
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| Chookie |
OK so Ive just done an awake all night shift and am really tired, but here is what I have to say;
Many thoughts and questions for you all to think about, please reapond as I am very interested to hear your thoughts etc, I don't necessarily know all the answers nor do I feel that all will be answered in 'my' favour, however I am interested in some more discussion on this topic!
1) what proof do you have of pre-payment?
2) not all goverments are friendly to people wanting to leave their country
3) if you're running from a regime known for extremism, violence and massive violations of human rights and have been labeled a "dissident", are you really going to want to pop your head up and say "hey everyone, i'm off to australia now!"
4) if you're trying to get to a what was once "friendly" nation to refugees, is popping up in indonesia and trying to apply from there a viable option?
5) muli/paulie/etc, were your families being persecuted? or were they just trying to emigrate to somewhere they percieved to be better for their familes, from somewhere they weren't going to get shot for walking near an embassy?
6) how many UK/USA/Canadian/European backpackers are overstaying their visas vs. people in detention centres at any one time?
7) how about all the people that are smuggled into the country who /can't/ pay up front, and are forced into prostitution or worse?
8) is a desperate family necessarily well educated on their immigration options? are they going to know the proper procedure? especially if they make enquiries locally and get put onto people smugglers rather than the proper authorities?
9) how does Merlin having a european passport invalidate his statement about refugees in general? as he's clearly pointed out, we are in contrevention of the UN resolutions on refugees
10) did we not have procedures for handling illegal immigrants BEFORE the current government?
11) were we actually having a problem with illegal refugees BEFORE the current policy? (I mean REAL problems, like them actually doing REAL harm to our economy, etc)
12) are the problems bigger or smaller with the current policy?
13) are we now spending less money with the new policy?
14) is the new policy just a cynical "keep the sheep happy" policy like airline security? [airline security is pathetic, and as has been stated publicly many times, purely there to make people "feel" secure]
15) do we actually, REALLY, have less illegal immigrants now?
16) do we have more or less LEGAL immigrants?
and that's all I have to say about that (for now) |
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| r e z |
You all seem to be forgetting why they are spending thousands of dollars to get over here...
Their countries are war-torn and all they are doing, is seeking refuge in one of the luckiest countries.
Alot of you take your lifestyle for granted.... being able to walk outside not fearing a grenade or missiles being launched in your general direction. (living in stalbans i fear syringes and landmines)
I think these refugees make perfect Australian citizens. Not like the majority who leech off the government. Most these refugees are skilled tradesmen and would actually help the economy instead of sapping money accomadating them in detention camps.
So before any of you make a biased opinion on why a refugee should do it the 'legal' way. Have a think about trying to do it the legal way whilst dodging bullets. Its easy enough for you people to say, line up like everyone else because you are living in the comfort of one of the safest countries.
I dare anyone to go stay in the Gaza strip, then try apply the legal way and wait months even years for a reply.
PS. Paulie your parents migrated because you were showing homo-sexual tendencies at a young age. But all is good, I shall make it my mission to bring those tendancies back to the surface of your good self :D :D |
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| one.tjc |
| quote: | Originally posted by r e z
I have been through Paulie's computer, and there are multiple crude shots of Gretal (not that i didn't have a good look myself). I am assuming that was the general opinion amongst the TA public.
question is.... WOULD YOU HIT IT? cos paulie did bahaha |
err i think it goes -> "pics or STFU!!!!!1111" :toothless |
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| batemanscott |
Rez i agree that their situation is really desparate and all but the problem is not about taking some in when they get here. As a country with strict foriegn policies, good or bad, we have to make a show of following through with them.
If we dont at least kick up a bit of a stink and say "hell no, that's illegal, go home" than we really end up with no rules at all. The social climate now is also very different than say pre 9-11. I'm not labelling refugees terrorists so don't get me wrong, but no doubt there is a bad element that must be prevented at whatever cost.
I honestly wish we could take all the refugees but life is not that easy. I'll need somone to verify this for me but i recently heard from an educated source that per capita Australia takes in more refugees than any other country, so we really aren't that bad.
My Mother in law was a refugeee of the vietnam war and she says very much the same thing. The media loves to sensationalise a story so keep in mind what u see on tv is not always truthfull. I also find it incredible that if these people are living in the extremely harsh living conditions that were being described above surely they won't to much mind a couple of years fed, clothed, educated and secure in a country like ours, and yet they burn down centres and starve themselves. I love donating my earned money to charities for the good it does, i ING HATE my taxes paying for these sort of repairs etc! |
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| Chuck Norris |
Ok,
I think it's funny how the only two wogs in the house were the first to go... |
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| eRRaTiK |
maria (miriam) should win the million.
`nuff said. |
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| bragi |
| quote: | Originally posted by batemanscott
but no doubt there is a bad element that must be prevented at whatever cost.
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Whatever the cost?
How about the cost of an extra 30 minutes getting on the plane because everyone is searched, and you can be hauled out for a random pat down by someone that in all reality equates to just another civilian for no reason? Small cost? No big loss?
How about the cost of immigration randomly stopping people on the street for ID checks simply because they look "Middle Eastern"? [as happened to two of my Sri Lankan (wtf?) work colleagues in seperate incidents] Small cost? It's OK because the Middle Easterns are usually the bad ones? No big loss? Doesn't effect you?
How about the cost of being arrested, having your computer confiscated, having your family interrogated, because you publish an Islamic website that had a forum on it that someone posted anti-US comments on? OK? No big deal? You don't run a website like that? They were asking for it?
How about allowing the government unprecedented levels of access to your financial information, and put legal imperatives on low-level employees in Finance, Real Estate, Car Sales, Casinos (for starters) to report "suspicious" [read could be anything] activity and money transfers? Don't care? Got nothing to hide? Don't mind the government looking into your private life?
Or maybe we'll install face recognision technology in all airports? Let's say, for the sake of argument, that 8% of all people walking through security at the airport will be flagged? That OK? You don't mind being searched because a computer thinks you look like Bin Laden after a weekend binge? What about the 2% of terrorists that DO get let through, and because the computer thinks they're OK, they're not searched, or looked at so hard? That OK?
How about a slow but steady errosion of our hard won right to privacy? To free speech? To freedom from being searched without due cause? Our right to legal counsel?
What about the day we allow random dog searches for drugs? It's OK, they're illegal. Hey! Why are you harassing me at raves? Why are these dogs all over the place? Why are the police shutting the rave down? We're just here to dance and enjoy ourselves man! What? Repetitive beats? Yeah, we enjoy that, even without the drugs! Hey! Yeah! We do! But what? You mean we can't have our "RAVE" music anymore? Just because I'm DJing, you can lock me away for 25 years because some stupid punk teenager popped an eccy? Just because I put on a party, provided security, invited the police with their dogs, had St Johns there, and even threw in roving doctors telling people about the evils of drugs, yet one stupid kid ripped a line of speed, you're going to take everything I have, my house, my car, my decks, because it's the "proceeds of drugs", and then tear my family apart because I'm not a suitable father?
Won't affect you?
Because some day it will, and by then it'll be FAR too late. All your rights will be gone, along with mine, your family's, your mates', and everyone elses.
Welcome to 1984, 20 years late, but as dangerous as can be, and all wrapped up in a short package with huge eyebrows.
Enjoy your future people, while you still have it. |
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| batemanscott |
hmmmmm, little blown out u think?? too much acid? oh yeah! the big bad corporation is out to get us all.
Let me ask u something bragi. i am not pro "US", nor am i a right wing extremist, nor am i paranoid, nor am i racist, but let me ask you something. If somehow these imaginary terrorists, with their imaginary bad intentions, and imaginary anger, and imaginary racism, and imaginary lack of respect for democracy, and imaginary bombs somehow happened to say.... gee i don't know, blow up a building with all the people you love in it, do u think that maybe you wouldn't have minded foregoing some of your hard earned privacy in the small hope that just maybe, maybe they could have been stopped?
It's a long shot i know but hey, 3000 people in a building with 3000 families would probably think u a little selfish if u didn't. I'm not saying America as a nation doesn't suffer these results totally unprovoked but i can tell u now, i'm sure that at least a few in the wtc being burned alive or jumping off the top knowing death waited below would probably have not supported what is done by their country, in their name.
I pity your family if a little privacy invasion is any help at all in stopping a repeat of this sort of incident and you refuse it! |
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| narcism |
1) what proof do you have of pre-payment?
Look at the smugglers bank balance, no one would be stupid enough to try and smuggle someone into a foreign country if there was no monetary gain. It’s a well no fact that people are paying huge amounts of cash to just secure a place on a boat. It really is a multimillion dollar industry. Just like getting 10 yr old kids to make carpets in India, or selling your daughter to another family. The blackmarket is huge and this is a prime example of it.
2) not all goverments are friendly to people wanting to leave their country
Well of course they aren’t, whether the government fears the people may speak out against them. Or they may do something to bring the world’s attention to them. I don’t understand what you are trying to quiestion here, should the Australian government be friendly to these people? Personally I don’t think they should open their arms and have a big welcoming party.
3) if you're running from a regime known for extremism, violence and massive violations of human rights and have been labeled a "dissident", are you really going to want to pop your head up and say "hey everyone, i'm off to australia now!"
The thing that makes the whole industry so sly is that yes, hey it is illegal. If I were planning to run away from my own home for instance, I wouldn’t tell anyone why, because keeping it a secret means that you have more of a chance of getting away with it.
4) if you're trying to get to a what was once "friendly" nation to refugees, is popping up in indonesia and trying to apply from there a viable option?
They don’t want to go to Indonesia, I tell you why because their own laws are harsher then the Australian ones. The Indonesian government then has to send them back to where they were coming from. The Australian government can wipe their hands clean so to speak. I personally wouldn’t stay in Indonesia and apply to come to Australia because the chances of being accepted is slim.
5) muli/paulie/etc, were your families being persecuted? or were they just trying to emigrate to somewhere they percieved to be better for their familes, from somewhere they weren't going to get shot for walking near an embassy?
My dad came here when he was 17, the only reason he came here is because his brother had moved earlier on and set up a job and a place to live as soon as he arrived. My grandfather died in America serving as a marine, my dad is entitled to live there if he wanted to. Why Australia, I don’t know it was his choice at the time.
I think after the second world war, there were heaps of jobs available and the government at the time were calling on for people to come here. It was a factor in helping the Australian economy.
6) how many UK/USA/Canadian/European backpackers are overstaying their visas vs. people in detention centres at any one time?
I don’t know the figures, I would assume more people who fly to Australia would overstay their visas as opposed to people floating here. One thing about this argument is that the right authorities know who has overstayed their visas and as soon as they find them, they will be sent back.
7) how about all the people that are smuggled into the country who /can't/ pay up front, and are forced into prostitution or worse?
Once again, I don’t have the figures to comment effectively on this, I would assume that the numbers would be very small. In most instances the ones forced into prostitution are actually international students. In saying that it, still doesn’t make it acceptable.
8) is a desperate family necessarily well educated on their immigration options? are they going to know the proper procedure? especially if they make enquiries locally and get put onto people smugglers rather than the proper authorities?
If you want to do something you look into it, in these cases its really word of mouth. I am sure they know what they need to do in order to get here the right way, the thing that makes them decide not to take this option could be a whole range of things, from not being accepted, a long waiting list ect.
So they decide to give the illegal option a go, who knows what they are told by these people, but im sure they would know that they wont be given a house, a car and a party when they arrive.
9) how does Merlin having a european passport invalidate his statement about refugees in general? as he's clearly pointed out, we are in contrevention of the UN resolutions on refugees
He was once a refugee, so the majority of what he is trying to say comes from a personal bias. I think he would have more power if he actually was entitled to vote, if he feels so strongly about it, become a citizen get into parliament, or start his own organisation. Wouldn’t voting in a g’ment who has the right policies be more effective, then looking like a wank on tv and using his 15 minutes of shame.
10) did we not have procedures for handling illegal immigrants BEFORE the current government?
Up until a few decades ago, it was a case of let anyone in. The way the world is today, you cant expect it to be the same. I guess its just like me saying, well people who went to uni before me didnt pay, why should i :)
11) were we actually having a problem with illegal refugees BEFORE the current policy? (I mean REAL problems, like them actually doing REAL harm to our economy, etc)
I don’t think it has to do with the economy at all, it comes down to setting a precedent. If you let one kid have a piece of cake the other 10 at the party want some aswell. If you refrain from giving that one kid a piece of cake, then the others may not ask.
12) are the problems bigger or smaller with the current policy?
Its always going to be an issue, I do believe the issue has some what been pushed back considering we have troops in iraq. There are much bigger problems then this at the moment.
15) do we actually, REALLY, have less illegal immigrants now?
There needs to be tougher laws and tougher penalties enforced to deter people. Once again I don’t have the statistics.
16) do we have more or less LEGAL immigrants?
What are some of the issues of legal immigrants? They don’t work, well im sure you will find the unemployed in all races, colors and locations. |
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| bragi |
| quote: | Originally posted by batemanscott
hmmmmm, little blown out u think?? too much acid? oh yeah! the big bad corporation is out to get us all.
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Paranoid fantasies? Well, they've all already happened to some extent. We're allowing a history we fought very hard to prevent. Imagine, all the greed and selfish motivation of Capitalism mixed nicely with the big brother aspects of all our favourite Communists, such as the SS, and KGB.
On the flip side of the coin, are you saying that we should discount all the veterans of World War II for fighting to keep us free of Communism?
I'm not saying it's wrong for the families to feel that they want the government to baby them, but we're giving up our freedoms and our privacy for NOTHING.
The security at an airport is an illusion. It's only there to keep all the sheep happy as they climb aboard their aircraft. It takes very little imagination to come up with ways around it. So why have it? So those 3000 families can feel "things are being done"?
Don't try to put words in my mouth about "the big bad corporations", nor even "the government" really. If you read what I said carefully then you'd see I'm blaming neither. I'm actually blaming those of us who are too scared to prevent giving up our freedoms for an illusion. Those of us who are too lazy to actually come up with real solutions, like, oh, I don't know, maybe accepting that there's other people and other ways of thinking than our own, and not trying to convert them. That's one possible solution.
Be very careful what you wish for, you may well get it.
First They Came for the Jews
First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
Pastor Martin Niem÷ller |
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