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Loophole In Smoking Bylaw! Puff Away! (pg. 3)
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| PartyHarlequin |
Jayx1 you're literally arguing for the sake of it. There's no answer here, most clubs will not tolerate smokers if there's a $5k fine attached to them. You aren't advocating rights and freedoms you're talking just to hear (see) your own voice (words). Maybe you're right and technically you can smoke without paying the fine because bylaw officers can't force you to produce ID, but what they can do is call the police, who will come if called and they can force you to produce ID and pay. You don't have a discernable point to your argument, only that there is some loophole that you believe may work (have you contacted a lawyer regarding this, to confirm it?). Why do you always raise points that seem to be purely random and exist only to instigate annoyance and frustration? Your so called "debate" never even begins to take into account or counter anyone elses arguments. You simply restate your thesis over and over and over again until no one cares enough to reply!
My two cents. |
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| Jayx1 |
no what i do is called rebuttle which is what im about to do right here.
As for the smoking laws. The police (real police) have absolutely no jurisdiction when it comes to by-laws. Only by-law officers can charge you with by-law offences. If the real police show up its because the club called them because you refuse to leave or refuse to butt out. It has nothing to do with the act of smoking.
The real police also cannot force you to produce ID unless you are actually charged with something. And seeing as the real police cannot charge you with by-law offences of which the smoking law is, the real police have absolutely no power in this case. And neither do the by law police. Which means you are off scot free everytime!
How do i know this? I spent 3 summers working for By law services... thats how. |
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| PartyHarlequin |
Just like police aren't allowed to layeth the smackdown on people they've already cuffed and secured or who aren't resisting, but it happens regularly.
So you've worked for the bylaw offices and you have something to do with the entertainment industry. What else should we add to your resume, just so we know what you're an "expert" on. |
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| Jayx1 |
| i also read the law and find out my rights as anyone can do online. The cops have tried to shake me down on many occasions but have failed. I remember i was at a rave once and a cop had a video camera and started asking my name and where i lived. My response? "am i under arrest"... the reply "well you could be!" and i said "so am i? and if so whats the charge?" and the reply was "no you are not" and i said "thanks have a great day". |
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| PartyHarlequin |
You know though that the police can confine you for up to 6 hours before charging/releasing you. For doing absolutely nothing. Honestly without primary resources (in this case a lawyer) you should not be posting anything, as anything more than something you heard... Regardless I'm done arguing, I think I've made my point and you've beaten yours to death :)
Cheers! |
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| Crazy Serb |
^^^
Hmm, interesting... go on, Jay, give us some more :D |
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| Orko |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
so? thats not your problem.. smoke and see if the club will enforce it. If they do, then apologize and butt out. Im willing to bet that most clubs wont give a unless the smoke police are actually on the premises. |
arent you the same guy who was worried about losing his job because of decreased attendance rates?
wont the constant fines put a financial burden on the clubs? |
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| Orko |
| quote: | Originally posted by PartyHarlequin
Just like police aren't allowed to layeth the smackdown on people they've already cuffed and secured or who aren't resisting, but it happens regularly.
So you've worked for the bylaw offices and you have something to do with the entertainment industry. What else should we add to your resume, just so we know what you're an "expert" on. |
he seems to have 'friends' and 'work experience' where ever it seems convenient for his argument.
Jayx1 how old are you, to have had all these jobs and made all these good connections?
and if you say, what does it matter what your age is? well it takes time in life to build work experience and connections |
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| Jayx1 |
the cops confining me for 6 hours without charge? Lets see what the charter says about this.... ah here it is. I have highlighted the parts that pertain to this arguement.
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7. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.
Search or seizure
8. Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure.
Detention or imprisonment
9. Everyone has the right not to be arbitrarily detained or imprisoned.
Arrest or detention
10. Everyone has the right on arrest or detention
a) to be informed promptly of the reasons therefor;
b) to retain and instruct counsel without delay and to be informed of that right; and
c) to have the validity of the detention determined by way of habeas corpus and to be released if the detention is not lawful.
Proceedings in criminal and penal matters
11. Any person charged with an offence has the right
a) to be informed without unreasonable delay of the specific offence;
b) to be tried within a reasonable time;
c) not to be compelled to be a witness in proceedings against that person in respect of the offence;
d) to be presumed innocent until proven guilty according to law in a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal;
e) not to be denied reasonable bail without just cause;
f) except in the case of an offence under military law tried before a military tribunal, to the benefit of trial by jury where the maximum punishment for the offence is imprisonment for five years or a more severe punishment;
g) not to be found guilty on account of any act or omission unless, at the time of the act or omission, it constituted an offence under Canadian or international law or was criminal according to the general principles of law recognized by the community of nations;
h) if finally acquitted of the offence, not to be tried for it again and, if finally found guilty and punished for the offence, not to be tried or punished for it again; and
i) if found guilty of the offence and if the punishment for the offence has been varied between the time of commission and the time of sentencing, to the benefit of the lesser punishment.
Treatment or punishment 12. Everyone has the right not to be subjected to any cruel and unusual treatment or punishment.
Self-crimination 13. A witness who testifies in any proceedings has the right not to have any incriminating evidence so given used to incriminate that witness in any other proceedings, except in a prosecution for perjury or for the giving of contradictory evidence.
Interpreter 14. A party or witness in any proceedings who does not understand or speak the language in which the proceedings are conducted or who is deaf has the right to the assistance of an interpreter.
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| Jayx1 |
| so you question my work experience? LOL thats funny... well i really dont give a rats ass what you think. I guess the old standby when you are losing an arguement is to attack credibility. Why dont you just go research the laws yourself as i have instead of attacking other's credibilities. |
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| Orko |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
so you question my work experience? LOL thats funny... well i really dont give a rats ass what you think. I guess the old standby when you are losing an arguement is to attack credibility. Why dont you just go research the laws yourself as i have instead of attacking other's credibilities. |
well im all for not attacking the person arguing, check my postings in the smoking thread.
you can question a person's credibility when THEY bring it into contention, as you have by stating your work experience.
you brought up credibility and experience, not us, we are just asking for clarification, because in most threads i have read which you started, you have stated your experience.
just asking for clarification, not attacking who you are. |
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| Jayx1 |
my experience is working 3 summers in the bylaw dept.
Enough said... im not claiming to be the #1 expert but i do have a handle on what my rights are as a citizen in this country. And the rest of you should all know these things too.
Its very very important. |
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