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I just watched Fahrenheit 911 (pg. 8)
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| biodigit |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
I was personally in a state of disbelief for about a week. |
That's why you're not the president :p
just like liquidx and st_andrew said, nobody expected him to get up in panic and start running in circles around the class. He's suppose to be the self-proclaimed leader of the free world and in situations like that, leaders of the free world will not just sit there for 7 mins and not do anything. Atleast, get up and start coordinating with your cabinet regarding taking any safety measures etc. because at the end the ball drops in his court with regards to decision making. And not doing anything for 7 mins is an awful long time given the cirumstances we were in at that time. |
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| NeoPhono |
| quote: | Originally posted by biodigit
That's why you're not the president :p
just like liquidx and st_andrew said, nobody expected him to get up in panic and start running in circles around the class. He's suppose to be the self-proclaimed leader of the free world and in situations like that, leaders of the free world will not just sit there for 7 mins and not do anything. Atleast, get up and start coordinating with your cabinet regarding taking any safety measures etc. because at the end the ball drops in his court with regards to decision making. And not doing anything for 7 mins is an awful long time given the cirumstances we were in at that time. |
The thing you have to realize is that there are automatic actions that occur when an event such as 9/11 happens. Just because he sat there does not mean nothing was going on behind the scenes. If an event such as 9/11 happened under my control, I would first know that things were in motion without my having to say anything. Secondly, it would take me a minute or two to clear my head, as I'm sure it would be emotionally staggering on many levels. Third, I would want to take a few minutes to think of what my future actions would be. I would hope you would want a president that would think a few things through before jumping into action. I think that seven minutes is an acceptable amount of time for a leader both to react personally and to examine future possibilities before springing into action. Even though he just "sat there," I'm sure there were many things going through his mind and many pre-planned actions happening behind the scenes. |
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| biodigit |
| quote: | Originally posted by NeoPhono
The thing you have to realize is that there are automatic actions that occur when an event such as 9/11 happens. Just because he sat there does not mean nothing was going on behind the scenes. If an event such as 9/11 happened under my control, I would first know that things were in motion without my having to say anything. Secondly, it would take me a minute or two to clear my head, as I'm sure it would be emotionally staggering on many levels. Third, I would want to take a few minutes to think of what my future actions would be. I would hope you would want a president that would think a few things through before jumping into action. I think that seven minutes is an acceptable amount of time for a leader both to react personally and to examine future possibilities before springing into action. Even though he just "sat there," I'm sure there were many things going through his mind and many pre-planned actions happening behind the scenes. |
I agree with you to a certain extent regarding thinking the scenerios out. But, I still think he could've got up and calmly excused himself and get with the program, given the circumstances were in. He could've brainstormed things out with his cabinet and make quick decisions. Just like I said in my previous post, he is the president. Presidents are suppose to be able to make quick and accurate decisions in situations like that. NOT sit there for minutes. Also remmember, on most of the decisions he has to sign off on. So his presence is essential to putting a stamp on decisions concerning national security. |
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| Shakka |
Here's a question: Did "sitting there for minutes" change anything about the current situation/course of events? Again, what exactly is the argument? That he sat there(most likely trying to plan what the next course of action would be) for a few minutes digesting information that would change the course of history? Would it have been better for him to stand up and say, "You'll have to excuse me kids, I've got a national security crisis on my hands. Our nation is under attack. DUCK AND COVER!" Would that have changed anything? Perhaps, and perhaps not. My guess is that a bunch of elementary school kids would've promptly shat their pants and would likely experience what psychiatrists call an SEE(Significant Emotional Event), while the events going on in NYC, D.C. and PA would not have been changed at all, resulting in no change to the security situation in addition to a traumatized group of children. It's easy to look back and say how you think a person should or should not have dealt with a particular situation; and simply because you may have dealth with it differently does not necessarily make you right and the other person wrong.
Was this scene really the best that Moore had to offer? |
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
Here's a question: Did "sitting there for minutes" change anything about the current situation/course of events? Again, what exactly is the argument? |
that you have a stupid president who can't think without his advisers.
| quote: | | That he sat there(most likely trying to plan what the next course of action would be) for a few minutes digesting information that would change the course of history? |
1. no it would probably not have changed a .
2. have you seen the movie? he didn't exactly look like he was planning something, more like he didn't care/didn't know how to react. really clueless!
| quote: | | Would it have been better for him to stand up and say, "You'll have to excuse me kids, I've got a national security crisis on my hands. Our nation is under attack. DUCK AND COVER!" Would that have changed anything? |
if he had done that then he would have been the stupidest person on earth. a "sorry kids, i have something important to take care of, excuse me for a moment" wouldn't have scared abyone.
| quote: | | Was this scene really the best that Moore had to offer? |
no but it was damn funny / scary! |
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| MisterOpus1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
Here's a question: Did "sitting there for minutes" change anything about the current situation/course of events? Again, what exactly is the argument? |
The argument, silly, is that BUSH'S PLAN FOR WORLD DOMINATION AND EVENTUAL ARMEGEDDON WAS BEGINNING TO FORM!!!!
I mean it's obvious. He KNEW the planes were hitting beforehand. Once he was told, why he could just sit back and enjoy his diabolical plan come to fruition while reading with the children.
His polls were slipping.
Nobody liked the guy much.
His first tax plan wasn't doin' much.
He played golf and farted around nearly 1/2 the time he was in office.
He needed a plan.
He needed to get the world back to likin' him.
He needed to instill FEAR in order to control the masses
It was perfect.
He is perfect.
WHAT A MANIACAL GENIOUS!!!!!!!!
I like that word - maniacal. I just found it yesterday. Ranks up there with diabolical. Where was I? Oh yeah...
| quote: | | That he sat there(most likely trying to plan what the next course of action would be) for a few minutes digesting information that would change the course of history? Would it have been better for him to stand up and say, "You'll have to excuse me kids, I've got a national security crisis on my hands. Our nation is under attack. DUCK AND COVER!" |
Look everyone, volcano!!!
Quick, duck and cover!!!
AAAAAAHHHHHHHHGGGG!!!!!!!
(old S. Park reference, sorry).
Okay, in all seriousness, I think it is worth noting that Bush should have excused himself in the most courteous and professional manner. That first coupla minutes where he's obviously pondering his options and next steps looks pretty bad in the sense of a President somewhat showing his insecurity and vulnerability - a characterization that I would not want to see my president visibly show in the public at any time.
The last 3 minutes where he's simply reading along I honestly just don't get. In my head I'm sitting there saying, "What the are you doing, man?!? Get the out of there now!"
In the very least, he shoulda immediately gotten out of there, not just for the sake of others, but for himself. Our President should be damn concerned for his own safety. They had no idea what the hell was going on, and for all they knew the President could have been under attack too. He needed to get the hell outa there ASAP.
| quote: | | Would that have changed anything? Perhaps, and perhaps not. |
It certainly wouldn't have changed the events that already occurred.
But considering HE was the one that brought his diabolical plan to fruition, why would we have expected anything else from him?
MUUUUHAAAAAHAAAAHAAA!!!!
| quote: | | My guess is that a bunch of elementary school kids would've promptly shat their pants and would likely experience what psychiatrists call an SEE(Significant Emotional Event), while the events going on in NYC, D.C. and PA would not have been changed at all, resulting in no change to the security situation in addition to a traumatized group of children. It's easy to look back and say how you think a person should or should not have dealt with a particular situation; and simply because you may have dealth with it differently does not necessarily make you right and the other person wrong. |
If he did a courteous, professional, but prompt exit, then no I don't think it would have put the kids in a panic.
| quote: | | Was this scene really the best that Moore had to offer? |
No, but it seems that it was pretty compelling nonetheless, according to a number of movie critics. From what I've heard, there are many equally compelling scenes throughout the movie, but esp. towards the end where Moore allows the scenes speak for themselves.
I dunno. Again, haven't seen it yet, so I'll reserve more comment until I do. |
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by MisterOpus1
The argument, silly, is that BUSH'S PLAN FOR WORLD DOMINATION AND EVENTUAL ARMEGEDDON WAS BEGINNING TO FORM!!!!
I mean it's obvious. He KNEW the planes were hitting beforehand. Once he was told, why he could just sit back and enjoy his diabolical plan come to fruition while reading with the children.
His polls were slipping.
Nobody liked the guy much.
His first tax plan wasn't doin' much.
He played golf and farted around nearly 1/2 the time he was in office.
He needed a plan.
He needed to get the world back to likin' him.
He needed to instill FEAR in order to control the masses
It was perfect.
He is perfect.
WHAT A MANIACAL GENIOUS!!!!!!!!
I like that word - maniacal. I just found it yesterday. Ranks up there with diabolical. Where was I? Oh yeah...
Look everyone, volcano!!!
Quick, duck and cover!!!
AAAAAAHHHHHHHHGGGG!!!!!!!
(old S. Park reference, sorry).
Okay, in all seriousness, I think it is worth noting that Bush should have excused himself in the most courteous and professional manner. That first coupla minutes where he's obviously pondering his options and next steps looks pretty bad in the sense of a President somewhat showing his insecurity and vulnerability - a characterization that I would not want to see my president visibly show in the public at any time.
The last 3 minutes where he's simply reading along I honestly just don't get. In my head I'm sitting there saying, "What the are you doing, man?!? Get the out of there now!"
In the very least, he shoulda immediately gotten out of there, not just for the sake of others, but for himself. Our President should be damn concerned for his own safety. They had no idea what the hell was going on, and for all they knew the President could have been under attack too. He needed to get the hell outa there ASAP.
It certainly wouldn't have changed the events that already occurred.
But considering HE was the one that brought his diabolical plan to fruition, why would we have expected anything else from him?
MUUUUHAAAAAHAAAAHAAA!!!!
If he did a courteous, professional, but prompt exit, then no I don't think it would have put the kids in a panic.
No, but it seems that it was pretty compelling nonetheless, according to a number of movie critics. From what I've heard, there are many equally compelling scenes throughout the movie, but esp. towards the end where Moore allows the scenes speak for themselves.
I dunno. Again, haven't seen it yet, so I'll reserve more comment until I do. |
Today the laughs are for me. I can't help but chuckle atcha sometimes, Old Man:toothless :haha:
I plan on seeing the movie eventually, but last night the winners were the Average Joes in Dodgeball. Funny stuff. When will I get my comedy dream team(Ben Stiller, Owen Wilson, Luke Wilson, Will Ferrell, Vince Vaughn) together in a movie? Did I leave anyone out? |
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| speedracer_mec |
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
that you have a stupid president who can't think without his advisers.
1. no it would probably not have changed a .
2. have you seen the movie? he didn't exactly look like he was planning something, more like he didn't care/didn't know how to react. really clueless!
if he had done that then he would have been the stupidest person on earth. a "sorry kids, i have something important to take care of, excuse me for a moment" wouldn't have scared abyone.
no but it was damn funny / scary! |
thank you for your opinion
Does anyone know Exactly what words were whispered into his ear.I know in the movie said what they thought was said. However it would make a big difference as to what exactly was spoken into his ear.
Btw were you in his mind at that particular moment to say he was clueless.....BUt nvm you're assuming/speculating.....what else can i expect from you.....:rolleyes: |
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| MisterOpus1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by speedracer_mec
thank you for your opinion
Does anyone know Exactly what words were whispered into his ear.I know in the movie said what they thought was said. However it would make a big difference as to what exactly was spoken into his ear. |
http://www.whitehouse.gov/ask/20030416.html
Secretary Card: ""A second plane hit the second tower. America is under attack!"
Where've you been? What Secretary Card said to Bush at that moment has been well known for some time now.
| quote: | | Btw were you in his mind at that particular moment to say he was clueless.....BUt nvm you're assuming/speculating.....what else can i expect from you.....:rolleyes: |
His opinion on the matter? Of course he is speculating, but I personally don't believe his speculation is too far off the mark - those first 2 minutes Bush clearly looked uncomfortable and flustered as hell. His body language and facial expressions are pretty evident of this feature. |
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| LiquidX |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
Here's a question: Did "sitting there for minutes" change anything about the current situation/course of events? Again, what exactly is the argument? That he sat there(most likely trying to plan what the next course of action would be) for a few minutes digesting information that would change the course of history? Would it have been better for him to stand up and say, "You'll have to excuse me kids, I've got a national security crisis on my hands. Our nation is under attack. DUCK AND COVER!" Would that have changed anything? Perhaps, and perhaps not. My guess is that a bunch of elementary school kids would've promptly shat their pants and would likely experience what psychiatrists call an SEE(Significant Emotional Event), while the events going on in NYC, D.C. and PA would not have been changed at all, resulting in no change to the security situation in addition to a traumatized group of children. It's easy to look back and say how you think a person should or should not have dealt with a particular situation; and simply because you may have dealth with it differently does not necessarily make you right and the other person wrong.
Was this scene really the best that Moore had to offer? |
Ok Bro. I know you come up with some very intelligent answers, but, I mean.. this situation is just obvious. The country was been attacked. I mean, any, ANY president would do something.. planes were hitting the towers in NY City, planes were heading the Pentagon, even the White House.. and wtf, the president sits there? Come on.. he was either clueless, or was he thinking ." Oh, I messed up, I should have listen to my anti-terrorism advisors " .. w.e., little things like that, tells you what kind of president he is really. AS small a thing like that. |
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| LiquidX |
| quote: | Originally posted by NeoPhono
The thing you have to realize is that there are automatic actions that occur when an event such as 9/11 happens. Just because he sat there does not mean nothing was going on behind the scenes. If an event such as 9/11 happened under my control, I would first know that things were in motion without my having to say anything. Secondly, it would take me a minute or two to clear my head, as I'm sure it would be emotionally staggering on many levels. Third, I would want to take a few minutes to think of what my future actions would be. I would hope you would want a president that would think a few things through before jumping into action. I think that seven minutes is an acceptable amount of time for a leader both to react personally and to examine future possibilities before springing into action. Even though he just "sat there," I'm sure there were many things going through his mind and many pre-planned actions happening behind the scenes. |
But I would definetly make sure that ALL Things are in motion.. is like you own a company, and is been attacked, would you just sit there, and just be self conscious that the other people that work for you are doing their job, or would you get in contact with them to know what the heck is going on?heh.. come on. |
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| speedracer_mec |
| quote: | Originally posted by MisterOpus1
http://www.whitehouse.gov/ask/20030416.html
Secretary Card: ""A second plane hit the second tower. America is under attack!"
Where've you been? What Secretary Card said to Bush at that moment has been well known for some time now.
His opinion on the matter? Of course he is speculating, but I personally don't believe his speculation is too far off the mark - those first 2 minutes Bush clearly looked uncomfortable and flustered as hell. His body language and facial expressions are pretty evident of this feature. |
thx for the info |
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