|
Death Penalty (pg. 2)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| Waxen |
| quote: | Originally posted by starsearcher
I don't really think that your view of once a killer - always a killer is correct...if someone slaughtered my relatives and I killed them out of revenge then it doesn't mean i'm a sicko and need to be killed because if I'll be released I'll kill again...there are too many examples that can be made against that argument...BUT...what I was referring to is life in prison without parole...I guess I should have made that clear...regardless - life in prison is not all that bad thanks to those wonderful "groups" that are so worried about the conditions of the poor prisoners that often like i said live better than some of us who are not locked up. ;) - And we are the ones paying taxes for all that too... |
Well when you put it that way, yes you are right. If someone were to kill someone I loved...I wouldn't kill them back, but just say I did... yes.. that doesnt' mean I will kill again. But then whose to say that I might like doing it. :rolleyes: Kidding...
I'm not talking about those kinds of killers anyways..I'm talking about the really smart, psycotic ones, they will do anything to kill again imo. BUT...I'm not a psychiatrist or anything, but even psychiatrists don't really know fully. |
|
|
| Waxen |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kytracid
There are some wild animals loose on the streets, animals that kill, torture, mutilate all to satisfy some sick craving that burns within them. At some point, i think what we can call humanity is lost in these vile creatures. If a fair judicial system can proove that a criminal has commited horrible atrocities against his fellow man, and they are unremorseful, and will probably commit them again if allowed to go free. Then I find no problem in sentencing them to death. Not sure about those who find the death penalty barbaric, but i know i can go to sleep peacefully knowing that a serial killer / child rapist will be going stright to hell, after they're done frying his ass.
In a progressive society, everyone should be held accountable for their actions. As hard as it is to stomach, i do believe that some actions carry with them, the ultimate consequence. |
Well said..
And they dont' "Fry" you anymore...they do it in a humane way with lethal injection. |
|
|
| starsearcher |
| quote: | Originally posted by xls
look into some of the Scandinavian penal systems. they often don't have revolving door prisons like we do here because they put the emphasis on reform rather than punishment. repeat offenders are practically non-existant in many communities because they are integrated back into the community instead of shunned as criminals when they get out. there was an interesting special on CBC about this a couple of months ago. |
Oh okay but you are still saying that they SHOULD go to jail though...see I thought you meant they should go through some program and get out...although that is a great thing for criminals that comit small crimes I don't agree that serial killers rapists and etc should be just released like that I don't think a "program" would work for them...it's too much of a risk IMO.
But take this for example...the guys that flew the planes into sept 11th...or all those brainwashed terrorists...I personally could never forgive, forget, or trust any program - I would always support death penalty for such sick freaks.
I guess the thing I'm thinking about the most is the murder of Izhak Rabin - an Israeli PM at the time by another Israeli - Igal Amir. There's a lot of grey spots about the murder but everyone knows he did it, it was caught on tape and everything. Regardless what I'm trying to say is that if this murder did not happen we probabbly would have not had most of the violence in the region that we have recently had. Does his fairly regular life in prison justify the lost lives of hunders or maybe even thousands of people?
I also think that it's easy to say that reforms are great when it hasn't impacted you personally...I really don't think you would suggest a reform when someone murders your family in cold blood for absolutely no reason other than to kill... ;) Just put yourself in that situation and think about what you would REALLY chose for that person. |
|
|
| Kytracid |
How exactly do you go about reforming a serial killer, or someone who has a history of violent sexual crimes.
You can reform a pickpocket by showing him an alternative to stealing. But that person was never in danger of being sentenced to death anyway. The death penalty should only be applied to the harshest of crimes, because it is the harshest of penalties.
I'm all for reform, and i'm all for giving people who have commited crimes a fair chanceto rehabilitate and integrate back into society. But at some point we have to stop making excuses for these people who clearly demonstrate that they have very little respect for human life.
| quote: | Originally posted by Waxen
Well said..
And they dont' "Fry" you anymore...they do it in a humane way with lethal injection. |
I was aware of this...but then again, i'm not so sure why we have to be humane about it at all.
Some countries, the death sentence is imposed by hanging the person...that's cruel, and even that in some cases wouldn't be a problem for me. Let the punishment fit the crime, because unfortunately, we live in a cruel, unforgiving world. |
|
|
| xls |
| quote: | Originally posted by starsearcher
Oh okay but you are still saying that they SHOULD go to jail though...see I thought you meant they should go through some program and get out...although that is a great thing for criminals that comit small crimes I don't agree that serial killers rapists and etc should be just released like that I don't think a "program" would work for them...it's too much of a risk IMO.
But take this for example...the guys that flew the planes into sept 11th...or all those brainwashed terrorists...I personally could never forgive, forget, or trust any program - I would always support death penalty for suck sick freaks.
I guess the thing I'm thinking about the most is the murder of Izhak Rabin - an Israeli PM at the time by another Israeli - Igal Amir. There's a lot of grey spots about the murder but everyone knows he did it, it was caught on tape and everything. Regardless what I'm trying to say is that if this murder did not happen we probabbly would have not have most of the violence in the region that we have recently had. Does his fairly regular life in prison justify the lost lives of hunders or maybe even thousands of people?
I also think that it's easy to say that reforms are great when it hasn't impacted you personally...I really don't think you would suggest a reform when someone murders your family in cold blood for absolutely no reason other than to kill... ;) Just put yourself in that situation and think about what you would REALLY chose for that person. |
Of course there will always be cases of people who will be judged too dangerous to ever be released (serial killers and serial rapists etc.) I think that if someone say commits a rape, they do their time and get counseling and psychiatric evaluations etc... approach it more from a reformation standpoint. when they're released, they should be monitored, and integrated into a community with lots of support. pedophiles, sex offenders, it's often a mental illness that should be monitored and treated the same way schizophrenia and bipolar disorders should be.
As for the September 11th attacks and other political killings, well, the people who commit them usually consider themselves soldiers in a war. That's a whole other can of worms. There's a whole bunch of ideologies at play that really disqualify our civilian penal system from even being considered in those situations. Remember, the term "terrorist" is just a term made up for good sound bites in the media, by the world's largest "terrorist" state (by their own definition of terrorists). |
|
|
| St_Andrew |
Then since reform don't work for this people, and they are obviously sick. Having them in prison for the whole life would just cost the government a lot of money. Okay, so let's kill them, we get rid of the person, he/she won't commit any new crimes, he won't cost any more money for the tax payers, sounds great...
But using that logic, we should kill a lot of more people that are just costing money in society. What about all people that is retarded or has any other bad sickness that make them useless for society. Should we kill them too? They are sick in exactly the same way as those people who make these crimes (born with it, nothing they can do about it.). I think the serial killers deserve to live exactly as much as someone else with another psychiatric problem. Life in prison for these people is the solotion imo, sure that cost money, but you give them a life (a rather decent one) but you still get them out of society. |
|
|
| xls |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kytracid
Let the punishment fit the crime, because unfortunately, we live in a cruel, unforgiving world. |
that's an awfully pessimistic view.
that's like letting a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch. re-instating capital punishment puts blood on the hands of the entire population. |
|
|
| starsearcher |
Well I don't think we should kill them for a money reason - although I know for sure it goes through the minds of many legislators cause as bad as it sounds it's a serious issue.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's not fair that some of these prisoners are living faily good lives with good food and treatment, televisions, and etc in these prisons. It's not the fact that it costs me money that bothers me, but the fact that this is not necessarily a punishment that fits the crime. |
|
|
| starsearcher |
| quote: | Originally posted by xls
that's an awfully pessimistic view.
that's like letting a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch. re-instating capital punishment puts blood on the hands of the entire population. |
But what if that "reformed" person gets out and kills again...would you like to be the one responsible for his release? Then the blood of the murdered person is on your hands... |
|
|
| xls |
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
Then since reform don't work for this people, and they are obviously sick. Having them in prison for the whole life would just cost the government a lot of money. Okay, so let's kill them, we get rid of the person, he/she won't commit any new crimes, he won't cost any more money for the tax payers, sounds great...
|
(actually, studies have shown that it is more expensive to execute a prisoner than it is to keep them in jail for life.)
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
But using that logic, we should kill a lot of more people that are just costing money in society. What about all people that is retarded or has any other bad sickness that make them useless for society. Should we kill them too? They are sick in exactly the same way as those people who make these crimes (born with it, nothing they can do about it.). I think the serial killers deserve to live exactly as much as someone else with another psychiatric problem. Life in prison for these people is the solotion imo, sure that cost money, but you give them a life (a rather decent one) but you still get them out of society. |
what's all this talk about jail being a good living? try to imagine it yourself. you live in a small cell. every day is strictly regimented. you can't go where you want, you can't do what you want, you can't even eat what you want. a roof over your head and 3 meals a day are not all it takes to live a good life. |
|
|
| xls |
| quote: | Originally posted by starsearcher
But what if that "reformed" person gets out and kills again...would you like to be the one responsible for his release? Then the blood of the murdered person is on your hands... |
there would need to be stringent psychiatric evaluations of people who have committed more serious crimes before they can be deemed "reformed". Obviously no system is perfect, but state-sponsored killing is not a society I want to live in. It's a knee-jerk reaction to media focusing on negative stories. |
|
|
| starsearcher |
| quote: | Originally posted by xls
what's all this talk about jail being a good living? try to imagine it yourself. you live in a small cell. every day is strictly regimented. you can't go where you want, you can't do what you want, you can't even eat what you want. a roof over your head and 3 meals a day are not all it takes to live a good life. |
It's really not AS STRICT as you make it sound...yeah it's tough and yeah it's not the same as being free...but some people are barely getting by...no job, struggling to make a living...get a roof over their head. If youre in jail...you have it all covered...I'm just saying that for some jail is even better than "out there" |
|
|
|
|
