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Death Penalty (pg. 3)
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by xls
(actually, studies have shown that it is more expensive to execute a prisoner than it is to keep them in jail for life.) |
didn't know about that, then there is no reason whatsoever imo to favor death penelty over prison in life.
| quote: | | what's all this talk about jail being a good living? try to imagine it yourself. you live in a small cell. every day is strictly regimented. you can't go where you want, you can't do what you want, you can't even eat what you want. a roof over your head and 3 meals a day are not all it takes to live a good life. |
Totally agree, it is still no heaven and therefor a detterent thing, no normal person want to get into prison! Though i think that it is far better than beeing dead... |
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| Kytracid |
| quote: | Originally posted by xls
that's an awfully pessimistic view.
that's like letting a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch. re-instating capital punishment puts blood on the hands of the entire population. |
So what's the solution, lock em up, throw away the key, and forget about the crimes these people have commited. Just because there's no blood on our hands, does that exonerate us as a society from knowing what these people did. It's a pessimistic view, i agree. But also a realistic one as well. When the topic of death penalty is brought up, you can't do it without putting the world of violent crime into context. The world we live in is not so far removed from the world in which these predetors operate in.
If you're so worried about the blood left on your hands by state sanctioned executions, then you have to also bear the burden of knowing that you give these killers sanctuary by putting them behind high, gaurded walls and fed three squares a day.
I fail to see the justice in preserving life, when the only legacy that life has left is pain, suffering and utter contempt for other life. |
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| ShadoWolf |
| they should bring back the death penalty, but only for the very worst crimes, and only after DNA evidence can prove they did it |
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| xls |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kytracid
So what's the solution, lock em up, throw away the key, and forget about the crimes these people have commited. Just because there's no blood on our hands, does that exonerate us as a society from knowing what these people did. It's a pessimistic view, i agree. But also a realistic one as well. When the topic of death penalty is brought up, you can't do it without putting the world of violent crime into context. The world we live in is not so far removed from the world in which these predetors operate in.
If you're so worried about the blood left on your hands by state sanctioned executions, then you have to also bear the burden of knowing that you give these killers sanctuary by putting them behind high, gaurded walls and fed three squares a day.
I fail to see the justice in preserving life, when the only legacy that life has left is pain, suffering and utter contempt for other life. |
When did I endorse locking them up, throwing away the key, and forgeting about their crimes? You lock them up, and remind them of their crimes daily. Teach them why it was wrong. Help them to feel remorse and guilt. Don't give up on them until they leave you with no other choice.
As for that legacy stuff. Come on, we live in the richest, most "civilized" (hate that word) society the world has ever seen. The legacy you speak of certainly exists en masse in other parts of the world, but not here (Before you put words in my mouth, I'm NOT saying we don't have our own issues with poverty etc... just that by comparison, we've got it pretty damn good - even those in the lower economic reaches of our society). Why do we need to follow a policy that may seem logical in those other parts of the world? |
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| j_spot |
DNA isnt always right.
Im all for the Death Penalty to be mandatory for certain crimes. That would make it cheaper than to keep somebody in prison (because the expensive bit is all the appeals, not the actual execution)
to me those crimes that warrant mandatory death are:
-sexual crimes against minors and mentailly handicapped (not 17 year olds, 13 year olds)
-Murder(not manslaughter) so this is anything premeditated.
-Violent hate crimes.
the violent hate crimes/sexual offences on minors, the people who commit those are not the type to reform. Even if they WOULD be the one to reform, their punishment for doing what they have done should be to lose their life.
and to make things even cheaper, you can have the guy up next on death row kill the 1st guy with his bare hands. Hes already killed somebody, whats one more?(kidding)
I know the death penalty is proven to NOT be a good deterant to crime. I dont think it should be a deterant. It is the punishment.
somebody mentioned killing 'retards'(for simplicity) on this same notion.. I dont think we should euthanize them, however, I am all for forced sterilization of both men and women who can not raise children properly. so retarded people cant have retarded babies, adding further to the burden on society. deal with it. if the govt handouts werent there what would they do? Starve, or steal. Stealing ends up with them getting caught, and going to jail, where BABAM! cycle continues. Take out the ability to reproduce, and WHAMO! problem solved.
I <3 my archaic views! |
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| Waxen |
| quote: | Originally posted by xls
Teach them why it was wrong. Help them to feel remorse and guilt. Don't give up on them until they leave you with no other choice. |
Or in other words... Don't give up on them until they KILL YOU. :rolleyes: |
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| ShadoWolf |
| High treason should also be punished with death, as well as the worst forms of rape. |
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| Kytracid |
| quote: | Originally posted by xls
When did I endorse locking them up, throwing away the key, and forgeting about their crimes? You lock them up, and remind them of their crimes daily. Teach them why it was wrong. Help them to feel remorse and guilt. Don't give up on them until they leave you with no other choice. |
In some cases, i agree, rehabiliation (which is what you're basically refering to) would work. In some cases. And lets be clear on this, When i passionately adovacte the use of the death penalty, i'm not talking about a guy who sells crack, or some 16 year old banger who shot a rival thug as part of his entry into the hard life, or even the housewife who shot her cheating husband.
It's about the henious crimes carried out by what can only be described as evil souls. The type of person who kills 17 people, only to collect their heads. The guy who rapes and kills childern because that's the only way he'll get off. The sick s who make it their lives work to basically prey upon the innocent.
When these people are caught, and convicted (and this is the part where you have to believe that the judicial system gives everyone a fair chance to represent themselves) i don't see how holding their hand, and getting them to repent for their sins makes things better. Maybe i am harsh when i say this, but quite frankly, i don't give a if they are remorsefull or not. Does their so called remorse erase the grief felt by the victims families, does it do anything to help make the lives of their loved ones easier ?
I believe in the goodness of people, like most people i've met in Canada -- but i suffer from no illusions that there is evil among us. And the really scary thing is, we might have even looked into it's eyes and not seen it. The issue of whether or not the death penalty should be imposed is really about whether we as a society have the stomach to eradicate this evil when it is found, or merely contain it, and hope it'll go away.
| quote: | Originally posted by xls
As for that legacy stuff. Come on, we live in the richest, most "civilized" (hate that word) society the world has ever seen. The legacy you speak of certainly exists en masse in other parts of the world, but not here (Before you put words in my mouth, I'm NOT saying we don't have our own issues with poverty etc... just that by comparison, we've got it pretty damn good - even those in the lower economic reaches of our society). Why do we need to follow a policy that may seem logical in those other parts of the world? |
When i refered to legacy, it was the legacy left behind by people like Jeffery Dahmer and Ted Bundy. People who have otherwise not really contributed to society, only brutalized it. An individual whose life purpose has been primarily in seeking and inflicting pain on others. |
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| MarkT |
| quote: | Originally posted by xls
The state has no business taking the lives of its subjects, no matter what they've done. It goes against basic principles of freedom and liberty. Our penal system in North America is flawed because it aims to punish rather than reform. Punishment has never been a deterrent for violent crimes... |
well said...xls, I agree with most of what you say...unfortunately, most people haven't done any research into this topic and speak only from their own ideas and opinions (which is fine, of course).
Capital punishment:
1. is not an effective deterrent to the violent crimes that would actually result in a death sentence.
2. does not really "punish" the criminal (they're DEAD, after all!)
3. is NOT less costly vs. the average jail term handed down for the same crime.
so...what's the point? to exact "revenge"? That's just creepy. You also can't overturn an unjust execution...at least if in jail, the person can be released and (sort of) compensated. Our legal system follows the idea that 'it is better to let 10 guilty men go free than to punish one innocent man'. If you disagree with that principle, than you're opening up a HUGE Pandora's Box and I'd be more than happy to debate your legal philosophies to demonstrate why we must operate that way in a civil and just society ;)
jspot...hate to single you out...but you're legal system is not one under which I'd like to be subject...reducing avenues of appeal? I'd suggest that the door to corruption and abuse are opened when checks and balances are removed to expediate conviction and punishment simply to save time and money, no?
I really find this whole "3 square meals a day" blah blah argument to be quite laughable. Go speak to anyone who's spent even 10-20 behind bars, nevermind 40-50, and ask them how the feel above their quality of life in prison :rolleyes:
This isn't even about reforming criminals. Yes, the practice of rehabilitation needs to be expanded in our legal system, particularly for non-violent crimes, but we KNOW that certain types of criminals don't respond to treatment...then they need to be removed from the general population and that is the purpose prison ought to serve. I don't think capital punishment is the answer. |
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| DigiNut |
| I think they should just be publicly flogged like naughty boys were in high school in the 50s. Singapore has the right idea with canings. Nothing permanent, but gives them some lasting pain to convince them think about what they've done. |
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| Kytracid |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
I think they should just be publicly flogged like naughty boys were in high school in the 50s. Singapore has the right idea with canings. Nothing permanent, but gives them some lasting pain to convince them think about what they've done. |
hahahahahahaha |
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| starsearcher |
I remember seeing a show about the penile system in Japan where the person is being embarrased in front of his community and he has to appologize to everyone for what he has done publically...They have no crime almost at all in those rural communities...
Problem is and what most of you are forgetting is that it's a whole different world, an acient history and tradition based on respect and certain values...it's very far away from the north american culture...
Unfortunately anything like that won't work here simply due to the cultural differences...if it works in one place it doesn't mean it will work in another necessarily. |
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