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over populated? (pg. 3)
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View this Thread in Original format
| malek |
honestly, i don't see your point. I don't understand the relation you are trying to create between the many ideologies you named and the " freedom to move wherever you please "
You forget to mention that many people who decide to come to Montreal or Toronto do so because they know people or better, have family in these center. These people help each other or even better sponsor them, relieving the state from doing so.
Come on, even canadians are moving out from small cities for big metropolitan areas... why should you blame immigrants? |
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| ShadoWolf |
Canadian immigration policy is as such:
The Lieberals let in as many immigrants as possible so they can return the favour by voting Lieberal. National interest be damned (Khaders, etc.).
There are too many "CINO's" around.
CINO = Canadian in name only... they're not here to better the country only to better their "tribes" .. oh sorry... multicultural communities. |
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| drgoodvibe |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Why should we be giving so many rights to immigrants? The charter of rights only applies to citizens and permanent residents. I can't even imagine what the basis could be for saying that they should be able to choose wherever they want to live, but that seems to be the policy - live wherever you want, speak whatever language you want, get however much or however little education you want - no need to actually contribute to the economy or the national culture. It must be nice for people from oppressed countries to be able to swing by Canada and help themselves to whatever they please. :rolleyes:
I notice a major paradox in this country's politics. We have a huge number of isolationists - people who are anti-capitalism, anti-American, anti-free-trade, pro-censorship (CRTC etc.) and so on, basically people who feel we should be more like a European country - and yet those same people are in favour of loose immigration and diversity policies which pack more and more non-citizens into the same places and encourages them to contribute as little as possible.
You folks do realize that this conflicting pair of ideologies is absolutely disastrous economically when put into practice, right? On the one hand you'd like to see ties severed with countries like the USA and UK who have great wealth, but at the same time accept immigrants from poor countries and make it easy for them to suck up jobs and cause population explosions in already overcrowded urban centres. Not a very effective policy.
Of course I don't mean to divert attention from the fact that we COULD be coping if a lot more money was invested in this city's infrastructure, but it's still a band-aid solution to a real political problem. |
Digi! Charter of rights should apply to all those who are human! Not just citizens. I have a huge problem with that sort of idealogy. Are we saying that those who are refugees fleeing a despotic regime have less rights then say you and or I?
Yes some abuse OHIP, yes some abuse our welfare system. But lets not generalize people. I know of many refugees (me included) who came here trying to start a life with freedom in mind. And now am a law abiding tax paying citizen! Don't generalize people and their lives. When you know nothing of their circumstances.
People are attracted to the big cities simply becuase there is a presumption that there is more jobs out here. Show these newcomeres that there are jobs out in the rural towns and surrounding countryside and they will move there. |
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| malek |
not only will they come to the cities because of the jobs. But also these same cities have the necessary infrastructures for them to get educated in French/English.
How can someone go live directly in let say Moose Jaw if he doesn't speak English? |
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| drgoodvibe |
| quote: | Originally posted by malek
not only will they come to the cities because of the jobs. But also these same cities have the necessary infrastructures for them to get educated in French/English.
How can someone go live directly in let say Moose Jaw if he doesn't speak English? |
as well.. there are existing communities in the major towns that can support each other. If say you were a chinese immigrant you'd rather be in Markham or chinatown in T.O or be in Vancouver among your community rather then some rural Quebec town. Just think about it.
People say government has way too much control in our lives, and yet its perfectly ok for government to tell people where to live now? :rolleyes: |
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| trancechaos |
| quote: | Originally posted by drgoodvibe
Show these newcomeres that there are jobs out in the rural towns and surrounding countryside and they will move there. |
easier said than done. |
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| malek |
| quote: | Originally posted by drgoodvibe
as well.. there are existing communities in the major towns that can support each other. If say you were a chinese immigrant you'd rather be in Markham or chinatown in T.O or be in Vancouver among your community rather then some rural Quebec town. Just think about it.
People say government has way too much control in our lives, and yet its perfectly ok for government to tell people where to live now? :rolleyes: |
yeah, thats what I was saying, most communities help the new comers. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by drgoodvibe
Yes some abuse OHIP, yes some abuse our welfare system. But lets not generalize people. I know of many refugees (me included) who came here trying to start a life with freedom in mind. And now am a law abiding tax paying citizen! Don't generalize people and their lives. When you know nothing of their circumstances. |
Political decisions have to be based on generalizations. There's no other way to deal with the complexity of an entire society.
In any event, you're missing the point. If we had the wealth of the USA then we could afford this kind of generosity, but we don't. That's not to say that we shouldn't be allowing in immigrants or refugees, just that we shouldn't be allowing in more than our country can support, and in places where it can support them.
It's got nothing to do with abusing the system - it's simply a matter of placing restrictions on the immigration, a matter of saying: Hey, no problem, you're welcome to stay in our wonderful country, but we expect you to pitch in whenever you can. Your room's in the basement, I'll show you down there.
Are ya catching my drift here? If you had to take a distant friend or family member who was down on his luck into your home, well sure most people in that situation might DO it, but they wouldn't be so quick to say "my house is your house", they wouldn't give him free reign there and certainly wouldn't put up with him sitting on the couch and watching TV all day. If it's my brother living there and he's lived there almost as long as I have, then I can't tell him what to do - but when it's a guest, I expect them to put in their fair share.
The policy should be: anyone can come to live here but they're expected to find a job, pass a few basic English and History tests, and become responsible citizens and contributors to our culture, otherwise they won't be allowed to stay. It's really not that hard.
Or, you could allow all the immigration you want but structure the economy around a free-market one where there isn't really a system to abuse and the country has enough wealth to deal with the population issues. But you can't have it both ways with the loose immigration AND the welfare state. Bringing up the fact that we complain about the level of government control is a weak argument - an oppressive nanny state is not okay simply because it gives freedom of mobility to immigrants. |
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| walkindude |
| quote: | Originally posted by ShadoWolf
Canadian immigration policy is as such:
The Lieberals let in as many immigrants as possible so they can return the favour by voting Lieberal. National interest be damned (Khaders, etc.).
There are too many "CINO's" around.
CINO = Canadian in name only... they're not here to better the country only to better their "tribes" .. oh sorry... multicultural communities. |
If I am an immigrant and A "CINO" then you are too!! People who came here 200 years ago or 50 or 10 or last week...they have come to make a better life for themselves just like your parents or ancestors....... so CHILL!!! live and let live.... |
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| Jayx1 |
Many people who are born here are CINOs too... but as in "canadian as nationality only"
Ginos are Cinos.... ;) LOL
Yo guy IM ITALIAN even though i dont speak, wasnt born there and never been!
:clown: |
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| Crazy Serb |
| quote: | Originally posted by ShadoWolf
brilliant post. |
I second that. |
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| cap |
I don't know what it is, but on every controversial TA thread, I tend to agree with Diginut.
Ottawa IS NOT effectively handling the influx of immigrants.
Our screening process for new immigrants is effete at best.
DR GOOD VIBE: I agree, all Humans deserve fundamental rights to live in freedom, have free speech, etc. But that DOES NOT mean Canada has a world-wide responsibility to host all these people.
Many immigrants are coming and going as they please, exploiting our lax laws, policies, etc. The worst part is, it's almost as if our government has a perfunctory attitude about it.
Immigrants are definitely OKAY in my books. * IF * they are carefully planned for, we have ample room and it won't cause stress on our health care or other government services. At this rate, ONTARIO CANNOT SUSTAIN FREE HEALTH CARE. We will soon be paying $10,000 to get a bloody checkup, just like our southern neighbours.
In addition, a few systems to ensure some integration to Canadian customs/culture wouldn't hurt. Oh wait, apparently I should have to integrate! That was the case when one day I went to use an ATM machine and the only language option was chinese. How nice! |
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