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Pay using your cell phone
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| glob_bash |
Hello everybody,
the purpose of this post is to see how many of you could be interested in using this new service that is to be available, hopefully, in not so distant future.
Here's short description of this new service:
1. All you need is a cell phone and a debit/credit card.
2. Setup of this application is very basic
3. you store your debit, credit cards on your phone
4. chose a secret PIN that is needed to turn on the application
5. To make a payment all you need to is to turn the application on and merchant sends you bill, that shows up on your display and from there you chose to make payment or not as well as the card you want to use for making payment
6. You can store as many card as you want and can add/remove cards at any time
7. The card information stored on phone is pin protected + encrypted
Don't wanna bother you with more details but if you want to know more about this, or need more info (as i tend to "forget" something always) to decide if this migh be something interesting - just ask!
Thanks everybody for your time |
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| rabbitjoker |
| This is already available - but good idea none the less. |
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| glob_bash |
can you tell me a bit more about that RJ?
if that's not a prob.
cheers |
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| rabbitjoker |
Forgive me if you know some of this – I’m providing background for readers.
As cellular usage reaches critical mass, providers must look for additional ways to increase revenues from their subscriber base.
There are 14 million cellular subscribers in Canada alone - and the 3 major providers are stumbling around to somehow make more money (because it sure as hell isn't going to happen through additional subscribers or a significant increase in airtime fees).
So, as typical with North America playing catch-up - we're seeing ring tones, pay-per-use services as a way for providers to increase the RPU (revenue per user).
The commonalities behind all the concepts are - increase the number of transactions - increase the RPU.
So... Providers have asked themselves they question - how can we tie little everyday transactions into the data networks that mobile service provides? If providers were able to tap into nominal transactions by providing a built-in "interac" system, while maintaining security - why wouldn't users use it? And imagine the "transaction" fees that could be levied for the network provider!!!
So - as mobile networks have pretty much converted them into massive WAN networks - the ability to transact has been developed.
This is how I would do it:
The way I would personally go about it (if I was a service provider) would be through "short codes" (send SMS to 28728 to pay for your soda at the coke vending machine via savings, 283742 via check, etc) with the bank accounts linked via some network provider app (not device specific). Vendor receives notification of payment - product is dispensed. Transaction details (movement of money) are handled behind the scenes. The network provider app that would link the device to the accounts would offer "profiles" for multiple users of devices and "verification" levels to ensure only the correct user is transacting.
IMO the bottom line: Any “device” or system that can interface with ATM networks can do this type of thing. The app shouldn't apply to the device (or be device specific) but should use current standards (SMS, ATM) to deliver the result.
This is how I've currently seen it done:
The way most providers have done it to date is by providing "credit" with the cell service - similar to the 900#s or 976#s you get on your phone bill - however this has extended some liability - so the integration of some sort of ATM network infrastructure into the mobile data network has been a more preferred choice. |
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| St_Andrew |
| why did people that voted no vote no? |
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| dEsidEL |
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
why did people that voted no vote no? |
some must go against the grain
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
why did people that voted no vote no? |
I didn't actually vote, but I'm not overly keen on the idea that losing my cell phone would be as bad as losing my ATM card. Sure they'd still need a PIN, but it's just a security hazard, people seem to lose/forget their cell phones A LOT more often than their ATM cards.
Besides, it just seems pointless, where do I take my cell phone that I don't also take my wallet? I can't think of a single time or place. I'm only interested in integrating things that aren't better off being separated, and my cell phone and my money definitely fall into the latter category. |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by rabbitjoker
This is how I would do it:
The way I would personally go about it (if I was a service provider) would be through "short codes" (send SMS to 28728 to pay for your soda at the coke vending machine via savings, 283742 via check, etc) with the bank accounts linked via some network provider app (not device specific). Vendor receives notification of payment - product is dispensed. Transaction details (movement of money) are handled behind the scenes. The network provider app that would link the device to the accounts would offer "profiles" for multiple users of devices and "verification" levels to ensure only the correct user is transacting.
IMO the bottom line: Any “device” or system that can interface with ATM networks can do this type of thing. The app shouldn't apply to the device (or be device specific) but should use current standards (SMS, ATM) to deliver the result.
This is how I've currently seen it done:
The way most providers have done it to date is by providing "credit" with the cell service - similar to the 900#s or 976#s you get on your phone bill - however this has extended some liability - so the integration of some sort of ATM network infrastructure into the mobile data network has been a more preferred choice. |
Wasn't this the whole concept of having bluetooth in your cell phone though?
I'm sure you remember the commercial of the good looking women in some European country being watched by some old guy while she uses her cell phone to get a can of pop out of a vending machine.
Or am I thinking of something else? :conf: |
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| maxtuh |
I personally would like the concept of having to lose my cell phone as diginut explained.
And who actually pays using their cell phone?
But the concept is good until they can make it more tangible.
I rather just pay it online or walk into the bank and do it. |
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
I didn't actually vote, but I'm not overly keen on the idea that losing my cell phone would be as bad as losing my ATM card. Sure they'd still need a PIN, but it's just a security hazard, people seem to lose/forget their cell phones A LOT more often than their ATM cards. |
ehm, okay now i come from a culture were the "cellphone culture" is MUCH more devoloped than canada's. But i would say that people tend to keep their cells more than their ATM cards...
anyway, it still should be easier to keep one thing than two?
| quote: | | Besides, it just seems pointless, where do I take my cell phone that I don't also take my wallet? I can't think of a single time or place. I'm only interested in integrating things that aren't better off being separated, and my cell phone and my money definitely fall into the latter category. |
again, canada is not as far as many other countries when it comes to this, but you will come there too :p some points from a swedish point of view:
1. People do have their cellphones with them more than their wallets. Seriously, people have them everywhere!
2. Why have two things when you can have it all in one!? why have a calcultor + cellphone + digital camera + atm card in your pocket when you can bring your cell with all those fetures? |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
again, canada is not as far as many other countries when it comes to this, but you will come there too :p some points from a swedish point of view:
1. People do have their cellphones with them more than their wallets. Seriously, people have them everywhere!
2. Why have two things when you can have it all in one!? why have a calcultor + cellphone + digital camera + atm card in your pocket when you can bring your cell with all those fetures? |
Don't worry, I understand the European cellphone culture, I've been to Israel. I'll address both points:
1. I practically never leave the house without my wallet. I can understand people wanting to take their cells just about everywhere, but why you wouldn't also take your wallet escapes my grasp. That's just silly.
You also neglect the real reason why Europe has this "cell phone culture". It is not, as you may assume, because Canada is "behind the times." It is because Europe's landline system was always TERRIBLE, so the communications companies invested their money into wireless technology. But North America's landline system is still VERY good and making plenty of money. Sure, people want cell phones here too, and companies like Fido are trying to get people to switch their home phones to cell phones, but only to a very limited extent.
Cell phone carriers here will never want to provide "complete" service on their wireless services because they still make a pantload of money from land lines. Just look at DSL - a viable alternative to cable high-speed internet available on almost ANY land line, assuming the line is up-to-date. That's an extra $40-$70 a month per customer, right there. High-speed internet sucks ass in Europe! Neither cable or DSL are available at all in several regions, and where it is available, it's often limited to less than 200 kbits downstream, which is a fraction of what you can get here for a fraction of what it costs to get it there.
That's a bit of a digression but it should help you understand why cell phones won't become as popular here as they are in Europe. In Europe there was really no alternative to wireless because land lines were so bad - here, we don't NEED cell phones, and everybody is comfortable with land lines, so phone companies are not going to put all their eggs in one basket (wireless) when they can have people subscribing to BOTH services.
2. Digital cameras I can understand, but ATM cards go in my wallet. I keep other things in my wallet that cannot go on my cell phone, like various ID and discount cards and... couple of other things in case of emergency. And if my ID could go on my cell phone, I wouldn't want it to, because then I have to choose from either (a) anybody who steals my cell phone would have access to my ID, or (b) I have to punch in some stupid password every time I want to produce it. Maybe both, depending on how insecure the system is or how awkward the interfce is! That would be a massive pain in the ass!
Aside from which, I can virtually guarantee that at least one time, one day, you will have no cash and wish you did. Most of the time, when people get something really cheap, it's for cash. In Kingston there were always people going around selling incredibly cheap stuff (it was probably stolen but that's none of my business), but of course they only took cash. It's not always stolen either - sometimes you'll just run into someone on the street who really needs cash and decides to sell something. Whether you want what they're selling or whether you're the charitable type who would just give them some money, you need cash for it.
When you're standing in line at a club, you need cash for cover. When you stop at a coffee shop or most take-out places for breakfast or lunch, they only take cash. If you ever go to a garage sale or a used bookstore, they want cash. Lots of small businessmen will give you a huge discount if you pay cash. Computer stores invariably give you a 3% discount if you pay cash - some of them take debit as an alternative but most don't.
So you see, there is simply no substitute for cash, and there never will be. Some may say that if EVERYBODY had one of these cell phones then we'd be fine, but they forget that cash has other uses (i.e. it's not traceable), and as Emery said, there are some people who just go against the grain for no particular reason, especially older folks.
If I need to carry cash, why not carry a wallet? If I need a wallet, why not keep my ATM and credit cards on there, rather than on a computer where someone else could *potentially* gain access to them? Security is such a HUGE issue with digital technology that few if any people who use it seem to be aware of. But identity theft is on the rise here, and moving all of our personal information to a COMMUNICATION device certainly cannot alleviate the problem.
How's that for an answer? ;) |
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| Cyrus King |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
[FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=#99CCEE]Don't worry, I understand the European cellphone culture, I've been to Israel. |
Israel is in the middle east.:eek: |
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