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Should I try X (pg. 13)
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| Trance Effect |
I think there was an old thread called " The Bible of E " something like that, i can't remember really well.
There was a lot of info in there. |
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| EyesOfExtasy |
| quote: | Originally posted by DjTiberius
I have heard alot of good stories about MDMA and how it makes people feel. I asked around at my school (im a sophmore in highschool) and i found a guy who will hook me up. However, I am a total noob when it comes to the difference in all the pills out there and what all the lingo means :( . He said he could get me either red lips or blue dolphins and a double stack would cost me $15. Whats the difference in the pills and wth is a double stack and am I being ripped off. Thanks |
DO NOT I REPEAT DO NOT TAKE BLUE DOLPHINS!!!!!!! THEY ARE NOT MDMA!!! |
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| EyesOfExtasy |
| quote: | Originally posted by dj_mdma
As a Pharmacologist and Physiologist, who has experienced the event of MDMA ingestion, i am at will to post a detailed and factual documentation of the effects of MDMA, with information on what happens during, and after. I can also provide information on why pre-loading with certain chemicals will help protect the body.
I have posted before on matters such as these, and no one has refuted me on this.
I'm not going to post anything other that advise the original poster of this thread, who i believe has already made his decision, because it has already been said before by other TA's, but with more than a hint of bias. So what i am going to say is aimed at EVERYONE who is considering taking MDMA.
MDMA will give your body and mind one of the best things you will ever, ever experience. That is a given. Yet, here on TA, and even the rest of the world, there are bad reports of it. There is plenty of information out there about it, especially on www.erowid.org and www.dancesafe.org with plenty of user reports, both good and bad. It is up to you to decide whether or not you will do it...You should not take it because "your mate wants you to" or because "you heard that it was a good/cool thing to do". You should only do it if you are confident in the information you have read, and thus be able to keep the experience a good one. And if you want to. Remember, that it is YOUR decision on what to do, and regardless of the opinions that people give you; ultimately, it will be YOU making the choice, NOT them.
I very rarely refer to MDMA as "ecstasy" as the term "ecstacy" is a very very broad blanket term that is sadly, used as a word to cover pretty much anything in a pill form that is taken, for recreational purposes, and has been jumped on by government and media bandwagons as their weapon against drug usage.
We as TA's know that it is MDMA that provides the effect that one seeks when taking a "pill" and "ecstasy", according to the government and media, could well be anything. We still know that, as who knows what is in the pills that we are taking? but it is wrong to infer that you will die from ecstasy, when it will NOT be the MDMA doing that to you, but possibly from anything else that is in there. The risk from overdosing on pure MDMA is almost non existant. I don't have the figures at hand now, but i vaguely remember that the LD 50 is something very high like 20-50mg per kg. if you equate that to someone like me, then for me to have a 50% chance of dying from mdma, i would have had to ingest 1400mg - 3500mg. That is close to the same amount of PARACETEMOL that would kill you!
Anyway, if anyone wants to ask me anything, be it about pre-loading, chemical effects, brain recovery systems etc etc, then ask away. |
Is it true that taking prozac within 3 hours after rolling can prevent neurotoxicity in the brain before it occurs. |
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| dj_mdma |
Taking Prozac during or after the usage of MDMA wouldn't be recommended by me :p Nor do i recommend the usage of MDMA ;)
anyway, here is my explanation.
Prozac is an antidepressant known as an SSRI, which stands for selective seratonin reuptake inhibitor. For depression, it is used to allow seratonin to "still be in use" for a longer time, which is beneficial to a depressive as they don't have much seratonin to begin with.
However, were you to use it at the same time as MDMA, some things are likely to happen.
When you use MDMA, the majority of your seratonin stores are released and thus activate seratonin synapses in the brain. IF you are not a depressive you will have more seratonin stores than a someone who ie. The rushing you feel, as well as the happiness and love you feel is due to the large amounts of seratonin released in one go.
To use prozac in conjunction with MDMA will, in theory, make your roll last a lot longer. And, i suspect, it does. In doing so, the comedown is delayed, as the seratonin is not reabsorbed into the brain, and it is easy to see why toying with the idea of prozac and MDMA has come to hand.
however, there is a condition known as seratonin syndrome, which causes diarrhea, flushing and tachycardia. It can be brought on by this as the sertonergic synapses in the brain are being over excited. This condition can occur naturally without the introduction of MDMA and other drugs.
Seratonin syndrome can be compared to glutamte neurotoxicity, whereby glutamate synapses can be overexcited, and over time, can lead to many neurological disorders such as Huntingdon's and PArkinsons', and glutamate neurotoxicity is down to large amounts of glutamate being used by the body, becuase there is more glutamate being ingested by the body (lots of food's nowadays contain monosodium glutamate...)
Thus, in answer to your question, prozac will not prevent neurotoxicity, instead, it can potentiate it. |
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| dj_mdma |
| oops, i forgot to say that by taking the prozac and MDMA together , then the seratonergic synapses will be excited for long periods of time without any refractory (recovery) period, and thus will go the same way as overexcited glutamte synapses...i.e may die |
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| dj_mdma |
the best way to combat the possible neurotoxic effects of MDMA would be to preload and post load with the appropriate stuff.
MDMA through lots of complicated chemistry produces free radicals in the brain. These are very reactive and can result in the destruction of neurons. For those who do chemistry, you will know that a free radical is an atom that has a free electron that "wants" to pair up with another one to become stable.
ANTIOXIDANTS such as Vitamin C and all the stuff you hear about in healt articles that will prevent cancer, will help prevent neurological damage, by mopping up the free radicals that MDMA use produces.
5HTP, or Trytophan will be useful for filling up your seratonin stores before usage of MDMA, and thus making your high better, as more seratonin can be released when you do MDMA. And it should be used afterwards to replenish the stores of seratonin that have been used up beforehand, and may prevent comedowns.
It is recommended that GRAPEFRUIT JUICE be taken with any preloading substance as the juice contains a carrier molecule which
1) binds to the 5htp and carries it across the stomach tissue ( and prevents breakdown without absorbtion) into the liver for conversion into 5HT (seratonin)
and
2) will bind to the 5HTP and help carry it acorss the blood-brain-barrier which protects the brain, and prevents large molecules from going into the brain.
There are specifics to what i have just said, but that is the gist that all you guys need to know :) |
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| Trance Nutter |
| quote: | Originally posted by joshyd
e does not cause brain damage.
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actually I have to disagree with you here.
There is evidence that MDMA/ecstacy will cause the degeneration of 5-HT producing nerve terminals, which may lead to schizophrenia and possibly psychoses.
TWO Sources:
Rang, Dale, Ritter, Moore, Pharmacology 5th Edition, Churchill-Livingstone, 2004
Neal M, Medical Pharmacology at a glance 4th Edition, Blackwell Publishing 2004, p69
I'll take textbooks over net sources any day.
But as with most drugs, there will probably always be conflicting evidence.
The LD quoted before is not taking into account the hyperthermia, which is the main killer, that is talking about respiratory depression or cardiac failure by tachycardia (i think) |
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| EyesOfExtasy |
I knew about 5HTP and I take that stuff on a daily basis. Didnt know about the grapefruit juice trick though but I will try that :)
I have never done prozac with mdma but I have heard that it tell neurons the correct neurons to reuptake seratonin. |
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| kr00t0n |
| quote: | Originally posted by EyesOfExtasy
I knew about 5HTP and I take that stuff on a daily basis. Didnt know about the grapefruit juice trick though but I will try that :)
I have never done prozac with mdma but I have heard that it tell neurons the correct neurons to reuptake seratonin. |
Not a good idea, taking 5htp constantly does a similar thing to the brain that cigarettes do.
Nicotine occurs naturaly in our brains, but as we introduce more nicotine into our system via smoking, our brain produces less. This is what causes the cravings for smokes and irritability, as nicotine is a mood balancer.
constant 5htp use will make your brain produce less serotonin, thus making you dependant on the external source. |
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| dj_mdma |
| quote: | Originally posted by Trance Nutter
actually I have to disagree with you here.
There is evidence that MDMA/ecstacy will cause the degeneration of 5-HT producing nerve terminals, which may lead to schizophrenia and possibly psychoses.
TWO Sources:
Rang, Dale, Ritter, Moore, Pharmacology 5th Edition, Churchill-Livingstone, 2004
Neal M, Medical Pharmacology at a glance 4th Edition, Blackwell Publishing 2004, p69
I'll take textbooks over net sources any day.
But as with most drugs, there will probably always be conflicting evidence.
The LD quoted before is not taking into account the hyperthermia, which is the main killer, that is talking about respiratory depression or cardiac failure by tachycardia (i think) |
i will not disagree with you there, since i have both those textbooks at home.
Most current research, and this includes scientific journals published by PubMED, EMBASE and the like is generally focussed on the ability of the brain to regenerate or compensate for the brain damage. Some studies say that existing seratonergic neurons increase output to compensate for the destroyed ones, some studies say that isn't the case. It is a given that ingesting any foreign substance, will damage our bodies in some way or another. How our body deals with that damage is another question.
As you have said in regards to the vague LD50, yes you are correct, the deaths attributed would be in regards to the tachycardia and stuff. But therin lies the dilemma, when is a death DIRECTLY due to the MDMA?
If the subject had kep themselves cool, etc etc, then they wouldn't have died. Although you can argue that MDMA lead to the effect that caused one's death, conversely, one can argue against it.
If people took more care about themselves whilst on MDMA, then there would be less media fuss over the rare deaths that occur. |
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| Darky |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by joshyd
u sir, are an absolute head. didnt u read wat i said, backup ur bull with some evidence.
e does not cause brain damage. and here is some evidence of that
http://www.bluelight.nu/vb/showthre...25&pagenumber=1
heres a sample of wat it says, cuz u probably dont have the brain capacity to figure its a link to proper evidence.
grow up. stop trying to put false facts into peoples minds.
anything within moderation isnt gona be bad for ya. but out of moderation then it will be bad for u, just like drinking alcohol each night or eating maccas everyday.
fvck i thought i was a cynic [/QUOTE
I'M NOT A SIR I'M A GIRL WHY THE WOULD A GUY HAVE A KITTY AVATAR???? YEAH THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT |
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| UWM |
There is a key located directly to the left of the 'A' key on QWERTY keyboards labeled 'Caps Lock.'
Press it once. |
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