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why why why??? (pg. 3)
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| ogvh5150 |
Growing pessimism about averting civil war in Iraq, as well as mounting concerns that the U.S. military presence there may itself be fuelling the insurgency and Islamist extremism worldwide, has spurred a spate of new calls for the United States to withdraw its 140,000 troops sooner rather than later.
Although resolutions to establish at least a timeline for withdrawal have so far gained the support of only about a quarter of the members of Congress, the absence of tangible progress in turning back the insurgency is adding to fears on Capitol Hill that the administration's hopes of stabilising the situation, let alone giving birth to a pro-western democracy in the heart of the Arab world, are delusory.
U.S.: Civil War Spectre Spurs New Iraq Exit Plans
In a shameless swipe at their political opponents, House Republicans passed a resolution on July 21 that denounces those who dare to question the wisdom of an indefinite U.S. military presence in Iraq.
"Calls for an early withdrawal embolden the terrorists," the bill states, adding that the U.S. must stay as long as it takes to achieve a free and secure Iraq.
At this rate that may be a long, long, long time.
House Demagoguery on Iraq
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Calls for an early withdrawal from Iraq are a mistake that will only embolden terrorists, the House resolved Wednesday.
The resolution drew opposition from Democrats, who said it implied that questioning President Bush's Iraq policies is unpatriotic.
The measure, approved 291-137, says the United States should leave Iraq only when national security and foreign policy goals related to a free and stable Iraq have been achieved.
"Calls for an early withdrawal embolden the terrorists and undermine the morale" of U.S. and allied forces and put their security at risk, the amendment to a State Department bill reads.
House votes to oppose early Iraq withdrawal |
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dupz
Honestly, what is a "terrorist"????
we throw around the word all too often.. |
hehe is it only me that get a flashback to digi and smilie? :D
Linky |
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| smokeape |
| quote: | Originally posted by TuanAnh213
why do conservatives continue to lump the iraqi war with defending this country and the world against terrorism when Saddam Hussein had absolutely nothing to do with the 9/11 bombings? |
Uh, who cares? We're in it now aand gotta see it through. Want to procrastinate why we had a civil war while you're at it? I'm sure folks didn't woory much about why it started after it started.
;)
[[[smoke]]] |
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| ogvh5150 |
“I think I provided a way to boost everybody’s confidence about the war. I was used as a symbol. They could show the war was going great because “we rescued this person.” It doesn’t bother me anymore. It used to."
10 Questions for Jessica Lynch |
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| kush paintings |
| See it through? Why do people insist that we have to see it through?! In Bin Ladden's declaration for jihad, he states that all Muslims should drive the infidels (the U.S., British, Israelies, amongst others) off of Muslim lands. We have developed an intangling alliance with Israel, something the founding fathers never wanted us to get into and our presence in the Middle East is resented. Yes they believe our way of life is unholy, but it is our presence in "their" part of the world that results in terrorism and will continue for as long as we decide to occupy. If you make a wrong move in chess, you don't insist on sticking with that move because you have already planed a course of action, you have to adapt, recognize your mistake and begin to plan the best way to minimize further damage. I feel like right now we are just in stun mode waiting for something miraculous to happen, like all extremist muslims come up to our soldiers with open arms and yankee hats on, eating a mcdonald's burger, while begging for forgiveness. Islam is not about to crumble and our actions in the middle east only draw more and more muslims towards the extremist side as lead by Bin Ladden. |
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| ogvh5150 |
REMIND US AGAIN WHY WE INVADED IRAQ?
Eleven years ago, as a condition for ending the Persian Gulf War, the Iraqi regime was required to destroy its weapons of mass destruction, to cease all development of such weapons, and to stop all support for terrorist groups. The Iraqi regime has violated all of those obligations. It possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons. It has given shelter and support to terrorism, and practices terror against its own people. The entire world has witnessed Iraq's eleven-year history of defiance, deception and bad faith.
Iraq is a land rich in culture, resources, and talent. Freed from the weight of oppression, Iraq's people will be able to share in the progress and prosperity of our time. If military action is necessary, the United States and our allies will help the Iraqi people rebuild their economy, and create the institutions of liberty in a unified Iraq at peace with its neighbors.
Later this week, the United States Congress will vote on this matter. I have asked Congress to authorize the use of America's military, if it proves necessary, to enforce U.N. Security Council demands. Approving this resolution does not mean that military action is imminent or unavoidable. The resolution will tell the United Nations, and all nations, that America speaks with one voice and is determined to make the demands of the civilized world mean something. Congress will also be sending a message to the dictator in Iraq: that his only chance -- his only choice is full compliance, and the time remaining for that choice is limited.
Members of Congress are nearing an historic vote. I'm confident they will fully consider the facts, and their duties.
George W. Bush
Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the facilities used to make more of those weapons.
George W. Bush, Radio Address, Oct. 5, 2002
From 1991 to 1995, the Iraqi regime said it had no biological weapons. After a senior official in its weapons program defected and exposed this lie, the regime admitted to producing tens of thousands of liters of anthrax and other deadly biological agents for use with Scud warheads, aerial bombs, and aircraft spray tanks. U.N. inspectors believe Iraq has produced two to four times the amount of biological agents it declared, and has failed to account for more than three metric tons of material that could be used to produce biological weapons. Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons.
President's Remarks at the United Nations General Assembly
Sept 12th,2002
Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction.
Dick Cheney August 26, 2002
Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons
George W. Bush, Sep. 12, 2002
Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the facilities used to make more of those weapons
George W. Bush, Radio Address, Oct. 5, 2002
The Iraqi regime . . . possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons. We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas."
George W. Bush, Oct. 7, 2002
And surveillance photos reveal that the regime is rebuilding facilities that it had used to produce chemical and biological weapons.
George W. Bush Oct 10, 2002
Iraq could decide on any given day to provide biological or chemical weapons to a terrorist group or to individual terrorists,...The war on terror will not be won until Iraq is completely and verifiably deprived of weapons of mass destruction.
Dick Cheney Dec 1, 2002
Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent" and "upwards of 30,000 munitions capable of delivering chemical agents...
George W. Bush, Jan. 28, 2003
Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent.
George W. Bush January 28, 2003
We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to keep his weapons of mass destruction, is determined to make more.
Colin Powell February 5, 2003
We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have.
George Bush February 8, 2003
Well, there is no question that we have evidence and information that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, biological and chemical particularly.
Ari Fleischer, Mar. 21, 2003
So has the strategic decision been made to disarm Iraq of its weapons of mass destruction by the leadership in Baghdad? I think our judgment has to be clearly not.
Colin Powell March 8, 2003
Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.
George Bush March 18, 2003
We are asked to accept Saddam decided to destroy those weapons. I say that such a claim is palpably absurd.
Tony Blair, Prime Minister 18 March, 2003
There is no doubt that the regime of Saddam Hussein possesses weapons of mass destruction. As this operation continues, those weapons will be identified, found, along with the people who have produced them and who guard them.
Gen. Tommy Franks March 22, 2003
We know where they are. They are in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad.
Donald Rumsfeld March 30, 2003
We are learning more as we interrogate or have discussions with Iraqi scientists and people within the Iraqi structure, that perhaps he destroyed some, perhaps he dispersed some. And so we will find them.
George Bush April 24, 2003
Before people crow about the absence of weapons of mass destruction, I suggest they wait a bit.
Tony Blair 28 April, 2003
There are people who in large measure have information that we need . . . so that we can track down the weapons of mass destruction in that country.
Donald Rumsfeld April 25, 2003
We'll find them. It'll be a matter of time to do so.
George Bush May 3, 2003
I am confident that we will find evidence that makes it clear he had weapons of mass destruction.
Colin Powell May 4, 2003
I'm not surprised if we begin to uncover the weapons program of Saddam Hussein -- because he had a weapons program.
George W. Bush May 6, 2003 |
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| ogvh5150 |
Some pre-Bush administration quotes for those of you think I like to attack Dubya:
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line." - President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program." - President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998
"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face." - Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983." - Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998
"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." - Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin (D-MI), Tom Daschle (D-SD), John Kerry( D - MA), and others Oct. 9, 1998
"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." - Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998
"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999
"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
- Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001
"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them." - Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." - Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002
"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do" - Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members.. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." - Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002
"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real." - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nou
I know really, if we hadnt been so gung ho on gettin Iran to collapse in the 80's then we wouldnt have sold him (and GAVE him) the training, equipment, and raw materials to make those weapons. |
There was good reason for that...
Anyone actually remember the Ayatollah Khomeini and the Islamic Revolution going on at the time and how they set up camp in Iran and decided the West was evil? Spitting rhetoric about how the U.S. was the "Great Satan" and a "nation of infidels."
Then Islamic militants took over the U.S. embassy in Tehran and decided taking 52 American hostages for 444 days was a good idea.
Everyone (including Saddam) was worried about it spilling out into neighboring countries, hence the Western support for Saddam at the time...
It had nothing to do with, 'taking over Iran' as much defending against a very hostile country. |
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| ogvh5150 |
Chickenhawks:
``No, I have not urged my own children to enlist.I don't know the status of my childrens' potentially enlisting in the Guard and Reserve,`` Romney said, his voice tinged with anger.
Massachusetts residents can enlist in the National Guard up to age 39.Romney's five sons range in age from 24 to 35. Neither the Romney children nor the governor have served in the military, Romney spokeswoman Julie Teer said.
More than 1,100 guardsmen and women from Massachusetts are currently serving in Iraq and Afghanistan, a guard spokeswoman said.According to federal statistics, 28 Massachusetts soldiers have been killed so far.
``I don't think you should be so `rah-rah' for a war that you aren't willing to send your own family members to,'' said Rose Gonzalez, 30, of Somerville, whose mother, a state employee, was deployed to Iraq in January.``If he thinks the war is so just and so important and we shouldn't pull out, then he should encourage his own sons to go.``
Mitt backs war, but his boys are safe at home |
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| Aiwendil |
| No, no he shouldn't. |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by ogvh5150
Chickenhawks:
``No, I have not urged my own children to enlist.I don't know the status of my childrens' potentially enlisting in the Guard and Reserve,`` Romney said, his voice tinged with anger.
Massachusetts residents can enlist in the National Guard up to age 39.Romney's five sons range in age from 24 to 35. Neither the Romney children nor the governor have served in the military, Romney spokeswoman Julie Teer said.
More than 1,100 guardsmen and women from Massachusetts are currently serving in Iraq and Afghanistan, a guard spokeswoman said.According to federal statistics, 28 Massachusetts soldiers have been killed so far.
``I don't think you should be so `rah-rah' for a war that you aren't willing to send your own family members to,'' said Rose Gonzalez, 30, of Somerville, whose mother, a state employee, was deployed to Iraq in January.``If he thinks the war is so just and so important and we shouldn't pull out, then he should encourage his own sons to go.``
Mitt backs war, but his boys are safe at home |
At the same time, don't go enlisting in the military and not expect to actually fight...:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
isn't that kinda like working as a butcher but you bitch because you're vegan? |
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| ogvh5150 |
You've missed the point. Politicians that want a war, who've never served in the military, whose children don't currently serve in the military are called chickenhawks.
What you're complaining about are those that serve in the military and don't expect to fight are misguided. You're right. If you plan on being in the military and expect not to be on the battlefield is a wrong assumption to make.
Unless you're a cook. |
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