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Man and God (pg. 7)
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| Jem_hadar |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
I agree with this point. Science is simply the newest religion. Like all religions, one must at some point make a leap of faith with science as it cannot be proven correct.... even physics breaks down at plank time, which means trying to explain anything before that must be done through faith. The universe doesn't function according to the laws that we "know" to be "true" unless there is a huge amount of mass out there somewhere that cannot be detected in any way shape or form.... believing in this takes faith. |
my new god is dark matter.
may it watch over me forever! ;) |
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| zoogla |
| quote: | Originally posted by jennypie
And I also think it takes great maturity to accept that there isn't a quantitative answer for everything. |
Well said. This debate began from the first time a human wondered where he/she came from. There is really nothing any of us can add to change another's opinion...it has to come from inside you. |
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| StereoPrincess |
| I consider my self a scientist but I still believe in God. The fact is that no matter how much knowledge we try to gather as researchers there is an overwhelming feeling of never being able to figure it all out. But there has to be something that know everything and that something is God. And that's my proof that God exists. Since as humans we will never know everything but there has to be something out there that does. |
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| zoogla |
The truth is out there.
Daaa na na na na NAAAAA... |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by StereoPrincess
I consider my self a scientist but I still believe in God. The fact is that no matter how much knowledge we try to gather as researchers there is an overwhelming feeling of never being able to figure it all out. But there has to be something that know everything and that something is God. And that's my proof that God exists. Since as humans we will never know everything but there has to be something out there that does. |
My belief is that if all else fails you can consider the universe itself to be god... What is God if not the creator and governor of all things. The Universe is all things and it governs itself... therefore one can argue that the universe is god. Furthermore, you can argue that we are simply a part of the universe and therefore we are a part of god.... |
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| Jem_hadar |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
My belief is that if all else fails you can consider the universe itself to be god... What is God if not the creator and governor of all things. The Universe is all things and it governs itself... therefore one can argue that the universe is god. Furthermore, you can argue that we are simply a part of the universe and therefore we are a part of god.... |
;) interesting notion, i like |
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by Max Q
I think you misunderstood my post -- i said there's substantial evidence for the Intelligent Design theory (remember, evidence is not the same as proof) |
Sorry, i meant to say evidence :) anyhow, im interested to see what evidence you are talking about :) |
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| TheVrk |
| quote: | Originally posted by jennypie
Science and faith go hand in hand in my opinion. And I also think it takes great maturity to accept that there isn't a quantitative answer for everything. That's what faith is, and from faith comes humility...something a lot more of us could do with to make us better as humans. |
VERY well said:)
St.Andrew: didnt mean to offend if at all.
You dont need to believe in God, thats your choice.
| quote: | Originally posted by St.Andrew
I dont say that there is not a god |
Very objective and mature statement - good for you |
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| Max Q |
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
Sorry, i meant to say evidence :) anyhow, im interested to see what evidence you are talking about :) |
The explanations that I saw were well-presented in a documentary and I'm trying for the life of me to remember what it was called. I will find out soon for you.
Basically, there are SO many factors that have to be precicely correct (like the position of our own planet within our galaxy, and the type of galaxy that we're in, and the orbits that the planets in our solar system are on) that if they were just even a fraction of an inch/second/whatever-measurement-for-that-event off then human life could NOT exist on this planet.
This basically takes the Big Bang Theory and maintains that because of all these factors (the ones I listed are just a smidgeon of all the observed ones out there) that it is just too unlikely that some super-intelligent being didn't have their hand in starting and supporting life in the universe as we know it.
But like I said, I will try to find some concrete arguments for you that I have already heard and you can check it out.
Edit: btw The video I saw was called "Journey Toward Creation" (on DVD) |
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by Max Q
The explanations that I saw were well-presented in a documentary and I'm trying for the life of me to remember what it was called. I will find out soon for you.
Basically, there are SO many factors that have to be precicely correct (like the position of our own planet within our galaxy, and the type of galaxy that we're in, and the orbits that the planets in our solar system are on) that if they were just even a fraction of an inch/second/whatever-measurement-for-that-event off then human life could NOT exist on this planet. |
Well i think the flaw with that argument is that it indeed would be a very small probability for the universe to be created like it is right now. However, if it wouldnt have been created like it is now, then it would have been created in some other way, which also would have created life, just not in the exact same way as we have it now. I have read that the probability for creating life out of randomness, is really quite big (bigger chance of happening than not happening i think?), and not the 8*10^99 or whatever creationists usually say.
| quote: | This basically takes the Big Bang Theory and maintains that because of all these factors (the ones I listed are just a smidgeon of all the observed ones out there) that it is just too unlikely that some super-intelligent being didn't have their hand in starting and supporting life in the universe as we know it.
But like I said, I will try to find some concrete arguments for you that I have already heard and you can check it out.
Edit: btw The video I saw was called "Journey Toward Creation" (on DVD) |
I will try to check out that movie (after hotel rwanda :p)!
Here are some threads with much interesting read (the first two about creationism/evolution, the third one more about christianity in general, the action starts after a few pages ;))
http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...ds&pagenumber=1
http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=196608
http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=163295 |
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| DJ_Elyot |
That theory about the probability being too low is garbage IMO.
Suppose there were 10^1000 universes, and things were just right on one planet orbiting one star in one galaxy in one of them, that life formed. Since these life-forms did not know that there are 10^1000-1 empty, lifeless universes, they could perhaps conclude some things about probabilities that aren't exactly true. And of course, in all of the empty universes, there are no life-forms to question their own existance.
Simple anthropic principle... we don't know whether or not there are other universes... we might just be lucky.
Here's an analogy. Suppose there are 10^1000 6-sided dice, each with a house built on one side of it. Each die is rolled trillions of times, and if ever the house lands on the bottom, it is crushed, and the people living in it are killed.
Well, after a few trillion throws, most of the people would be dead. Now suppose there is one living person who stands up and says, "Hey, there is an overwhelming chance that I should have died. I guess God saved me. Therefore God exists." Meanwhile, he doesn't know about the huge numbers of others who didn't make it, because he is not aware of the existance of any other dice. He is only concerned with his own existance, and therefore his probability calculations are out of context (ie erroneous conditional probability). Same fallacy. |
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| cyper |
People who believe in any type of religion always try to make other people believe in that very same religion as well. Usually by threatening them with the whole.. "You will go to hell if you dont believe in god"
The exact same can be said for those who dont believe. As they try to get people to stop believing by saying things like.. "there isnt any proof that god exists".
In the end, nobody is right. And those who do believe they are, only end up lying to themselves. Stop trying to force people into believing in what you think is correct. Because you are wrong to do so.
Now.. lets all have a beer and listen to some trance music
:D |
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