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NIMBYs protest Tim Hortons (pg. 2)
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| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
the Coffee Time at Parliament and Carlton is a ing dump and attracts every crackhead piece of trash in the area. |
Parliament/Carlton would still be a dump without the Coffee Time.
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
What's wrong with a protest? Whenever people are unhappy, you (jayx1) tell people to get up off their ass and do something about it...well, now they are and you're bashing them for not wanting a Tim Horton's in one of the most historic buildings in the area...
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because people bitch about STUPID THINGS and do nothing about the most important issues. Its ridiculous how petty our society has become yet on a larger scale we do nothing to change how our society on a grand scale operates.
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What's wrong with wanting to preserve a neighbourhood that's filled with mostly indie-owned establishments too? I live a few blocks from there and it's nice to see a street that's not filled with every lame franchise imagineable. |
apparently this building needs to be fixed up and Tim Horton's is willing to do this. Also if residents had supported the pub in the first place it wouldnt have been forced to close. Perhaps if these NIMBYs dont want a tim hortons they should have supported the pub even after the smoking laws went in. Its interesting to see how other business owners on the street SUPPORT Tim Hortons as a draw to their neighbourhood. This is exactly how you do business. You want high traffic areas especially if you are a lesser known brand. Well known high traffic brands usually produce spin off traffic to the other stores that do not directly compete with them. But why should the NIMBYS care? All they want is the feeling that they are somehow superior to other parts of Toronto since it's not their livlihood that they have to worry about on that street right? As long as it looks nice as they drive by in their SUV it's all good right?
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So just becuase the owner of the Winchester SAYS that the smoking laws have forced them to close, that's gospel? Has anyone looked at their books? |
Considering its his life i would think he would know best. Its funny how people think that they know better than a proprietor about their own business, especially one that is established.
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Just because it's been there forever doesn't mean it's a well-run bar these days...so blaming the failure of such an established business on a smoking bylaw could easily be a cop-out for an owner who's not efficiently running their business, IMHO, or who is facing rising costs (I don't even want to know what the property taxes are for that piece of real estate). Speaking of which, Cabbagetown saw the highest average property value increase in 2004 of ANY area in the GTA, if memory serves. Maybe wealthy residents are favouring more "upscale" places? |
perhaps but the owner of the Kit Kat was just on CITY talking about how his business has also suffered in the past year thanks to the smoking law. There is no doubt that this law DOES affect business and anyone who says differently is either very ignorant to how business works or a liar.
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anyway...regardless...there's nothing wrong with a protest. Someone ID'd the place as a business opportunity...and residents are protesting...I really don't see the problem. |
If these people found a real cause to bitch about maybe some real change could be made. If the problem is smoking laws or high property taxes then maybe this is the issue to take up instead of crying about a donut shop. |
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| MarkT |
I'm not say that *I* know better than the owners do...but to take their word as gospel is naive. If they were running the place into the ground, do you think they tell the media that the reason for them closing is that they can't efficiently run their business?
So what have they done to adapt in light of the smoking bylaws? What have they creatively done to draw people in instead of sitting back and hoping the regulars remain regulars?
You're again making assumptions that the pub is not supported by the residents. You have no idea how the business is run...for all you know the owner has a $500/day coke habit and is snorting his profits up his nose (yes, I'm being a smartass...point being, you have no idea what is going on there other than what the owner is telling the media).
Isn't Kit Kat a variety store near the Winchester? I'm sure the smoking laws would hurt their business...you know, being that they'd sell cigarettes there, lol.
What else do Cabbagetown residents need to bitch about? Some people care about their immediate area and leave the macro issues to politicians...that's their perogative. I think the area beautiful...a great place to live (if you can afford it)...as I mentioned, property values are *soaring*...half the houses are historical buildings...it's got a large green space right there in Riverdale Farm, is close to the DVP, etc.
maybe they want to keep things the way they are and feel that increasing the presence of "chain" stores will detract from that...I don't know...the point is that if residents don't want something to go in, then they should say so...and they are.
I thought you'd commend them for acting upon their wishes instead of sitting back and complaining while doing nothing...but I guess you have your own double standards though...so it's ok for people to protest, so long as you deem that issue to be worthwhile :rolleyes: |
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| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
I thought you'd commend them for acting upon their wishes instead of sitting back and complaining while doing nothing...but I guess you have your own double standards though...so it's ok for people to protest, so long as you deem that issue to be worthwhile :rolleyes: |
The point is, there's something very wrong with a society in which people protest a coffee shop, but can't get off their asses to protest the most corrupt government in the OECD and in Canada's history. |
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| Jayx1 |
First the Kit Kat is a really nice restaurant in the entertainment district.
Second what im saying is that these idiots need to look at the reasons why the winchester closed. Protesting a Tim Hortons because this bussiness doesnt fit their "ideal" is not only petty but quite arrogant as well. If they dont want tim hortons in their neighbourhood they simply should not frequent it the same way they obviously didnt frequent the pub and then it will go away.
Im fine with them protesting to be honest but i simply cant believe that they would. Id be even more upset of their pettiness suceeded. All im saying is that i wish people like this would focus their energy on more important things. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by ShadoWolf
The point is, there's something very wrong with a society in which people protest a coffee shop, but can't get off their asses to protest the most corrupt government in the OECD and in Canada's history. |
Thats part of it...
People cant even protest when theyve been outright lied to by a premier. They accept all kinds of ridiculous restrictions on how they live yet they freak out over a tim hortons or god knows what other petty bull.
And dont tell me people dont care because they do. They are just to scared/lazy to do anything about it |
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| malek |
| i see nothing wrong in wanting to preserve a historic quarter. |
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| zoogla |
| quote: | Originally posted by ShadoWolf
but can't get off their asses to protest the most corrupt government in the OECD and in Canada's history. |
Jury's still out for me on comparing Canadian corruption to other OECD countries' (I've lived in Pakistan & Saudi Arabia and Canada is a blessing!) but I attended a foreign exchange market presentation recently and Canada is the hottest economy in the G7 right now...at least we've got that! (May/may not be related to the corruption ;)) |
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| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by malek
i see nothing wrong in wanting to preserve a historic quarter. |
historic quarter my ass!
This isn't Montreal we're talking about... it's Cabbagetown - armpit of downtown Toronto. If any part of Toronto begs for renewal, it's this one.
Hell, even Parkdale's improved over the years. |
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| zoogla |
| quote: | Originally posted by ShadoWolf
historic quarter my ass!
This isn't Montreal we're talking about... it's Cabbagetown - armpit of downtown Toronto. If any part of Toronto begs for renewal, it's this one.
Hell, even Parkdale's improved over the years. |
Malvern's got a new playground (thanks to Vince ) |
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| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by fayraree
Jury's still out for me on comparing Canadian corruption to other OECD countries' (I've lived in Pakistan & Saudi Arabia and Canada is a blessing!) |
those countries aren't in the OECD...
but I agree with you if you compare Canada to the countries you mentioned. ALTHOUGH, that's only in terms of aggregate corruption - those countries have a little bit of corruption everywhere... whereas in Canada we have a LOT of corruption in ONE place.
| quote: | | but I attended a foreign exchange market presentation recently and Canada is the hottest economy in the G7 right now...at least we've got that! (May/may not be related to the corruption ;)) |
nope sorry, it's the U.S.
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/18/26/2713584.xls
where'd you get that info from, the Bank of Canada? Whose Governor is a close personal friend and past collegue of Paul Martin? Who this week made some of the most SHAMEFUL remarks by a BOC Governor in history (regarding other countries)?
Note that the Eastern European countries are the hottest right now in the OECD - and not just their women! They have a flat tax... something Canada desperately needs. |
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| zoogla |
| quote: | Originally posted by ShadoWolf
where'd you get that info from, the Bank of Canada? Whose Governor is a close personal friend and past collegue of Paul Martin? Who this week made some of the most SHAMEFUL remarks by a BOC Governor in history (regarding other countries)? |
Did a quick follow up and I stand corrected...last time I quote someone while I was dosing off...LOL...
http://www.scotiacapital.com/Englis...on/bnsglobe.pdf |
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