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-=- Basslines -=- (pg. 3)
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| Phantax |
| What about the ES1? |
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| DigiNut |
Wow, I'm starting to understand why a lot of electronic music sounds so formulaic - people seem hell-bent on obeying a formula! Does nobody here think that the answer to this question depends on the actual instrument?
Don't limit yourself from the start by using mono when stereo is available, because then you won't be able to use a lot of effects on it. It's very easy to convert a stereo track to mono sometime down the road, but very difficult to do the opposite.
Chorus and stereo delays are good examples, but there's so much more than that. What about phased/flanged basses? If you're using an electric guitar/bass, it's going to sound like in mono. What if you have a few basses and you want to use stereo imaging to scatter them across the sound field? I've got one bass preset that was ok by itself, but sounds really kick ass when you apply multiband stereo imaging/delay to it. Again, not possible in mono.
A track will no doubt sound like crap if the bass is all over the place, but that's true of any other instrument as well. That's why you have to pay attention to your sound field and position your instruments properly! |
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| JakeC |
| Stereo is onlt good for headphones if your making a track for a club remember that club soundsystems are in mono. |
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| Axolotyl |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Wow, I'm starting to understand why a lot of electronic music sounds so formulaic - people seem hell-bent on obeying a formula! Does nobody here think that the answer to this question depends on the actual instrument?
Don't limit yourself from the start by using mono when stereo is available, because then you won't be able to use a lot of effects on it. It's very easy to convert a stereo track to mono sometime down the road, but very difficult to do the opposite.
Chorus and stereo delays are good examples, but there's so much more than that. What about phased/flanged basses? If you're using an electric guitar/bass, it's going to sound like in mono. What if you have a few basses and you want to use stereo imaging to scatter them across the sound field? I've got one bass preset that was ok by itself, but sounds really kick ass when you apply multiband stereo imaging/delay to it. Again, not possible in mono.
A track will no doubt sound like crap if the bass is all over the place, but that's true of any other instrument as well. That's why you have to pay attention to your sound field and position your instruments properly! |
Electronic music isnt formulaic, just dance music and especially a lot of trance.
FX on basses? sure go ahead, I'm all for it, but most of the time with straight up thumping trance you want a good, clear bass that works well with the kick and does little more than drive the track forward with simple powerful energy. You start adding a lot of stereo fx/flangers etc you are going to make the bass sit further back in the mix and its not going have the prescence that a good bassline should. It might sound interesting and original at the start, but come mastering time your going to have considerable difficulty making an fx heavy bassline sit well in the mix.
Sure its just another formulaic technique, but its that way because it works on the dancefloor, not becuase people are trying to be unoriginal. :toothless
imho, a bassline should be one of the most simple and accessible parts of any track. |
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| retrobyte |
| quote: | Originally posted by Axolotyl
Electronic music isnt formulaic, just dance music and especially a lot of trance.
FX on basses? sure go ahead, I'm all for it, but most of the time with straight up thumping trance you want a good, clear bass that works well with the kick and does little more than drive the track forward with simple powerful energy. You start adding a lot of stereo fx/flangers etc you are going to make the bass sit further back in the mix and its not going have the prescence that a good bassline should. It might sound interesting and original at the start, but come mastering time your going to have considerable difficulty making an fx heavy bassline sit well in the mix.
Sure its just another formulaic technique, but its that way because it works on the dancefloor, not becuase people are trying to be unoriginal. :toothless
imho, a bassline should be one of the most simple and accessible parts of any track. |
amen to every single part of this reply! I was getting so sick of reading everyone going "BE ORIGINAL" when the bass is one of the most fundamental pieces of any track and for most intents and purposes really needs to be up front and clean in the mix. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Axolotyl
Electronic music isnt formulaic, just dance music and especially a lot of trance.
FX on basses? sure go ahead, I'm all for it, but most of the time with straight up thumping trance you want a good, clear bass that works well with the kick and does little more than drive the track forward with simple powerful energy. You start adding a lot of stereo fx/flangers etc you are going to make the bass sit further back in the mix and its not going have the prescence that a good bassline should. It might sound interesting and original at the start, but come mastering time your going to have considerable difficulty making an fx heavy bassline sit well in the mix.
Sure its just another formulaic technique, but its that way because it works on the dancefloor, not becuase people are trying to be unoriginal. :toothless
imho, a bassline should be one of the most simple and accessible parts of any track. |
Well, first of all I don't see where the thread starter mentioned anything about trance. Basslines may take a back seat in trance music, but house, breaks, jungle, and almost every other form of electronic music, emphasize the bassline rather than dismissing it. You want basslines that are funky, dirty, sleazy, scary, acid, etc, and it just ain't going to happen without some fx (or complex synths that use those fx internally). Distortion on the bassline in particular is VERY widely used, and it's nearly impossible to get good distortion in mono.
Second, if a track has a few basslines, which most good tracks do, they're going to HAVE to sit in different places in the mix in order not to be muddy. And usually you'll want your slap bass in front of your acid bassline in front of your sub/classic bassline, etc.
My tracks are by no means perfect but I've had no complaints whatsoever about the basslines, so obviously I must be doing something right. :p
Again, I'm not saying that "stereo is better than mono", I'm just saying, don't do something that way just because some guy on the forum told you to. If it sounds muddy in stereo and perfect when you mix it down to mono, then all the power to you - but in case the reverse is true, why start off with a mono bassline when it's so easy to mix it down from stereo later? |
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| Axolotyl |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Well, first of all I don't see where the thread starter mentioned anything about trance.
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Well, it is TA... guess I just assumed.
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Basslines may take a back seat in trance music, but house, breaks, jungle, and almost every other form of electronic music, emphasize the bassline rather than dismissing it.
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?? Far from it. Trance is all about the bassline. A solid CLEAN bassline will give it more prominance and prescence in the mix than one that is going through a flanger or reverb for example. You can get a huge ammount of character into your bassline using nothing more than just LFO's, envelopes, FM and filters.
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Second, if a track has a few basslines, which most good tracks do, they're going to HAVE to sit in different places in the mix in order not to be muddy. And usually you'll want your slap bass in front of your acid bassline in front of your sub/classic bassline, etc.
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Obvioisly if you have more than one bassline, they will be occupying different frequencies. It really is only ones that go below 250Hz ie: the low basslines, (not bass style synths) that need to be in mono. I think this is where we are getting confused here. If you read my previous post I said that frequences that sit <250Hz in the mix should be mono. Ones that are higher... well do whatever you feel like... your getting into lower mids territory here and this is more where your creative use of stereo fx will sit better.
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Again, I'm not saying that "stereo is better than mono", I'm just saying, don't do something that way just because some guy on the forum told you to.
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I'm not. I've experimented with stereo/fx heavy bass and didnt find it worked for me at all. It was interesting, sure but it didnt provide the solid clear bottom end that I liked. Thats not to say dont do it. If it works for you... go ahead. I'm not criticising you or anything, just offering my opinion on it. The style of music that I am trying to produce requires a punchy, crystal clear bottom end and you will not ever get that with stereo fx laden basslines. |
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| Liquid8 |
| Would be really cool to hear your samples guys :) And to see if you really get such a good result with the technique you're using. |
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| Chronosis |
| quote: | Originally posted by Liquid8
Would be really cool to hear your samples guys :) And to see if you really get such a good result with the technique you're using. |
What do you mean by technique? Having bass in mono is hardly a technique... If you want samples, you can listen to about any trance track ever released. But mid/high -frequencies are different. Imo that bassline of yours would sound the best, if you'd break it in 2 versions: one playing frequencies below ~250Hz and is in mono, another playing frequencies above that and is in stereo. Then run the "sub-bass" through same compressor with kick (both are mono). Gives it a good punch. But do what sounds the best to you. |
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| Liquid8 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Chronosis
What do you mean by technique? Having bass in mono is hardly a technique... If you want samples, you can listen to about any trance track ever released. But mid/high -frequencies are different. Imo that bassline of yours would sound the best, if you'd break it in 2 versions: one playing frequencies below ~250Hz and is in mono, another playing frequencies above that and is in stereo. Then run the "sub-bass" through same compressor with kick (both are mono). Gives it a good punch. But do what sounds the best to you. |
Would it be more clear for you if I put the word "technique" between inverted commas ? Ok, if you want :)
About samples, I'd like to hear samples from people who're giving advices here in this topic ;) |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Axolotyl
?? Far from it. Trance is all about the bassline. A solid CLEAN bassline will give it more prominance and prescence in the mix than one that is going through a flanger or reverb for example. You can get a huge ammount of character into your bassline using nothing more than just LFO's, envelopes, FM and filters. |
I had a feeling that comment would be misinterpreted but I didn't want to write a whole essay. :p Yeah, a lot of work goes into the *sound design* of a trance bassline. What I meant was that house and breaks basslines tend to convey more musical style and direction (you hear a lot of actual melodies right in the bassline) whereas trance tracks mainly provide a foundation for the melodies and give tracks that extra "oomph". It wasn't a diss on trance, just a contrast to other genres.
The kind of bassline I'm talking about is like the acid line in Poxymusic - Our Break. Whether you like or hate the track, you've gotta admit that is one seriously kick ass bassline. You DO hear some pretty cool basslines in trance tracks, for example the contrasting lines in Animated Rhythm - Persuasion - but not as often.
| quote: | | I'm not. I've experimented with stereo/fx heavy bass and didnt find it worked for me at all. It was interesting, sure but it didnt provide the solid clear bottom end that I liked. Thats not to say dont do it. If it works for you... go ahead. I'm not criticising you or anything, just offering my opinion on it. The style of music that I am trying to produce requires a punchy, crystal clear bottom end and you will not ever get that with stereo fx laden basslines. |
Of course I can't argue with your experience. You weren't the one I was referring to anyway, I read your original post and it was very well-put: I was talking about the "MONO. ALWAYS. BECAUSE I SAID SO" posts. ;) |
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| Axolotyl |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
The kind of bassline I'm talking about is like the acid line in Poxymusic - Our Break. Whether you like or hate the track, you've gotta admit that is one seriously kick ass bassline. You DO hear some pretty cool basslines in trance tracks, for example the contrasting lines in Animated Rhythm - Persuasion - but not as often.[/COLOR][/FONT]
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Cant say I've heard any of those tracks, sorry. I've been getting into a bit more Aphex Twin recently though. That guy does some really wierd with basslines. Very creative stuff! Amost dissolves them into pure glitched noise. :crazy:
Anyway, keep on tweaking those basses =) |
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