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Do we live in a police state? TO police start enforcing their version of a dress code (pg. 3)
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
We complain that nothing gets done about violence, but then defend money hungry pieces of who look to profit from it or people who do nothing but inflame the situation...that's hypocrisy at it's finest. We need to recognize that some things, while legal, are not socially acceptable. There is nothing wrong with passively "enforcing" social norms. We can't FORCE people not to wear such shirts, but there's nothing wrong with our police (or our citizens) giving such people a hard time about wearing them. |
OK then..devil's advocate time.
Whats the difference between tshirt profiling and racial profiling except that one is something you can change and the other is not?
Why are we all aghast at profiling certain types of people and not others?
To me its the exact same thing.
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If I wore a "White Pride" t-shirt in Toronto, I'd expect to get *plenty* of attention from minorities on the street. Of course I'd expect to not be illegally assaulted or something (though I probably would be), but I'd have to be prepared to accept the attention it would draw. So if some stupid kid wants to wear that shirt, they should be prepared to get that same attention, whether from the police or from anyone else. |
getting undue attention from private citizens is quite a bit different from official state harrassment. And if a private citizen did seize a tshirt such as the cops have been doing they'd be arrested for theft. Think about it.
| quote: | | technically you can tell a cop (or anyone on the street) to go themselves if they approach you for no reason...it doesn't mean you should be able to do so without being "hassled". |
yeah and the cops will technically find some dope on you and make your life a living hell.
This whole thing smacks of totalitarianism and the fact that some people are actually defending these actions makes me want to puke. I cant wait until some of you start crying about the authorities shutting down your favourite afterhours or complain about why we cant have events like love parade in our city. It all comes from the same mentality you are defending here. |
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| Jayx1 |
How about this example? What if the cops hassled him?
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Originally posted by CanadaBoyTRANCE
FOR loca
(ecstasy shirt guy (forget your name but remember your t-shirt lol)
Hey dude thats me.. |
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| crazedcanuck |
The defeating term of any "pro' sentiment can be found in this term.
"PROBABLE CAUSE"
'Nuff said. |
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| MarkT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
OK then..devil's advocate time.
Whats the difference between tshirt profiling and racial profiling except that one is something you can change and the other is not?
Why are we all aghast at profiling certain types of people and not others?
To me its the exact same thing.
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absolutely NOT the same thing...unreasonable discrimination on the basis of race contravenes the Charter. There's nothing in the Charter about discriminating on the basis of clothing ;)
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
getting undue attention from private citizens is quite a bit different from official state harrassment. And if a private citizen did seize a tshirt such as the cops have been doing they'd be arrested for theft. Think about it.
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I don't support seizing the shirts...they are not illegal. A cop stopping a kid and pointing out the shirt being irresonsible in this supposedly dangerous gun climate (which I still say is bull, Toronto is very safe) isn't so bad.
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
yeah and the cops will technically find some dope on you and make your life a living hell.
This whole thing smacks of totalitarianism and the fact that some people are actually defending these actions makes me want to puke. I cant wait until some of you start crying about the authorities shutting down your favourite afterhours or complain about why we cant have events like love parade in our city. It all comes from the same mentality you are defending here. |
slippery slope...
again...people complain if the cops do nothing...they do anything that isn't 100% "enforcing the law" and people cry abuse of power.
I think the police should define "hassle"...if it's stopping a kid for a second and questioning their logic behind wearing it, it's not undue harassment...if they detain the kid and unduly intimidate them, then I think it is.
I don't see this proactive approach as *necessarily* harmful. |
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| chanoa |
i personally think that (and jayx1..yer gonna hate this one) the gov't should forget about coming down on the kids wearing this and more on the ppl manufacturing/designing/marketing/selling distasteful to children.
i think i mentioned b4 how w49 markets and manufactures the line HKD to preteens-young adults. The words HateKillDestory is all over the clothing.
thats just fuct |
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| Jayx1 |
here is a better idea... maybe parents should start getting involved. Why should it be up to the government? Canadians always want the government to be their mommies and daddies. Enough already!
Mark. ill respond to you later ;) Im going to bed! |
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| Jem_hadar |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
here is a better idea... maybe parents should start getting involved. Why should it be up to the government? Canadians always want the government to be their mommies and daddies. Enough already!
Mark. ill respond to you later ;) Im going to bed! |
I agree, parents try to pass the buck way too much and want the government or teachers often to do whut they should do.
youre damn right parents should take take a bigger role and responsibility in all this. |
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| Dark_Archonis |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Sadly we had freedom for so long that we forget what not having it is like. So we tend to give it away. |
That is definitely true ... too many people take life for granted ... but it seems to be all thought out, to make us unaware and content.
I also totally agree about parents being more involved ... but look at the "genius" of this society ... parents are too busy working and worrying about minor matters while society and the media ends up raising kids. If you actually think about it, it all seems to make sense, from the point of view of course of those who created this scheme in the first place. |
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| torontobarfly |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
I hope nobody ever hassles you about something you wear.
What if one day "FCUK" is deemed to be against community standards? With precedents like this it could happen.
If you want communism thats fine, but count me out. |
well if someone is going to wear a message on their clothing that is insulting to a group of people then they better be prepared to be held accountable for it...people wear stuff like that to get attention so they should be pleased when attention comes their way...
certain areas, schools and work places, already set standards as to what you can and can't wear...the world is still spinning despite this...
and we're talking about the cops "harrassing" people with these shirts, not arresting or jailing them...no laws are about to change because of all of this.....if the authorities were constantly harrassing people about what they were wearing in public then this topic would be worthy of a serious debate but it's s stupid t-shirt that has the cops pissed off and it's all going to blow over before you can say "overreaction" three times;) a little perspective is needed in this thread me thinks... |
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| crazedcanuck |
| quote: | Originally posted by torontobarfly
well if someone is going to wear a message on their clothing that is insulting to a group of people then they better be prepared to be held accountable for it...people wear stuff like that to get attention so they should be pleased when attention comes their way...
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We are supposed to be as free to wear a shirt with a phrase or graphic of varying taste, and as a concession others are just as free to express their opinion in regards to your choices.
Last I check our Charter of Rights and Freedoms doesn't trim those freedoms, or condem one who exercises them to endure police harassment.
So according to much of the logic in this thread, should I be sportig a sunglasses, phat pants, and a mohawk, the police have a right to question, search, and detain me temporarily.
Many of you seem to have forgotten, or never experienced ineraction with the boys and gals in blue. Their thinly veiled term harassment doesn't mean they are going to pull you aside and give you an Elmer the safety Elephant button and advise you how to cross the street safely.
Searches of you, your belongings, and detainment based on how pissy the officer is feeling that moment is a clearer idea of what they are suggesting they will do. Something many of you find completely acceptable.
Next-time a cop stops you out of the blue, and pulls you through the wringer for maybe being too black, too weird, too gay, too poor, having the wrong haircut or overall style, you all should think back to this thread.
Decide right now if you want your law enforcement to be re-active, or pre-emptive and where those types movements usually lead to. Aggression or solution? |
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| MarkT |
This entire thread hinges upon what exactly is meant by "hassling".
Some people here are interpreting it as illegal searches, unreasonably long detention, or intimidation.
That's clearly not acceptable.
Some are interpreting it as more of them attemtping to give a 3 minute "that's a stupid shirt and you're not helping the situation" lecture.
This *is* acceptable, IMHO...IF handled properly (a very big "if", I know).
I don't know...I honestly prefer to give a bit of latitude to our police force. They have what amounts to a thankless job and a no-win situation. If they do anything in an attempt to be pro-active, they are "harassing" people. If they are just reactive once a crime happens, they are seen as not doing their job...especially in these gun cases where witnesses and the community won't even help out and come forward with info.
The solution isn't just more police on the street...it's proactive work in the community. If that means "hassling" a few people wearing irresponsible shirts, I could care less. Let's not turn this into a slippery slope argument where our rights are perceived as being trampled. |
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| Spam |
| quote: | Originally posted by torontobarfly
nobody is alarmed by this because everyone is sick and tired of all the gun play in this city and and the last thing we need is some idiot coming up with a t-shirt to promote more of it just to make a few dollars...i could care less if the cops hassle everyone they see wearing the shirts, in fact i hope they do...
if you want freedom of speach and you want to piss people off by the message you wear on your clothes then be prepared to answer for it...freedom of expression goes both ways and the cops are simply expressing how they feel about the shirts... |
Wouldn't it be cool though, if, instead of hassling kids with a stupid T-Shirt, they actually did their jobs and caught some of those shooters shootin' up Toronto right now?
Yeah... that'd be sweet. |
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