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Government to decide whether new music store is allowed to open (pg. 5)
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| DJ_Science |
| Do you honestly think that the free market is working in US? Or in Europe (which has more regulations then you think) |
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| Jayx1 |
^^^^^^^^^^^^
not to mention that there is a lot of good american, canadian, etc music out there that never gets popular for reasons far beyond any government intervention. And a lot of total canadian e that gets played thanks to these stupid laws. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ_Science
Do you honestly think that the free market is working in US? Or in Europe (which has more regulations then you think) |
the law there isnt dictating that you "must play canadian content" yet they do.
So why do we have to have laws protecting canadian content here if it clearly would get played anyways as demonstrated in other countries.
OK maybe sean desmond wouldnt see airplay but thats a good thing!
I know 2 people who have both won junos.
In both situations they had hit records in europe that hardly even got played here despite stupid Cancon laws. It had more to do with what the market wanted than silly laws.
Eventually one of those guys had a huge song here when they popafied their style for canadian audiences but their original tune never made it on the radio here.
This just backs up my point more. |
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| DJ_Science |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
I believe you have misunderstood me. I didn't say they serve no useful purpose, I said that they do not serve the purpose that they are intended to serve. They serve a purpose by artificially promoting and upholding the Canadian recording industry thus allowing that industry to thrive despite largely substandard quality (granted there is a lot of good but there is a lot of bad too). If that is a goal that we wish to acheive then CCLs are a great means to that end. Unfortunately, the intended goal of CCLs are to promote and protect Canadian culture, which they do not.
Regarding market forces.... if a band.... let's say your friends, is good enough they should be able to command an audience and be successful without any assistance via government intervention. IF they fail it simply means that they are not commercially viable. People can succeed without the benefit of CCLs.... just not the mediocore ones. |
I think that CCL are going to do more and more as the media reform that is coming in Via US companies becomes more dominant.
Anyway, i have to leave for a bit guys, i have work to do. I will be back later to throw my two cents in again then. |
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| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ_Science
I'm not pushing for government control of everything by any means (this seems to be what you are implying). I'm simply trying to make the point that there are two statements being made that I feel are false.
1) market forces are enough and therefore we should leave everything in the hands of the market.
and 2) canadain content rules serve no useful purpose. |
1. Most humans are lazy and do have a sheep mentality in terms of media influence on their lives. If it's hyped enough, they'll think they like it. (Oh dear... Big can of worms there) :D
Meaning, to break into mainstream market, one must be really good and have lots of luck, or hyped up a lot. Having unknown Canadian artists get some air time is good, but how often do unknown Canadian artists get air time over more known Canadian artists?
2. See 1, but I will add that while it gives slight better chance to Canadian artists to break into the market, I, being a somewhat intelligent citizen (albeit with a slightly addled brain), don't like being told what to like and what to not like by the govt. |
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| DJ_Science |
We need these laws now more then ever as we are signing more and more trade agreements with the US and other international bodies. Sure its great that we have laws that state that no canadain company can own more then one or two stations in a given area. ZBut do you you know that hte US companies who bring in media are not subjected to that law. What do you think is going to become of our culture once the US companies gain a stronger foothold here?
Anyway, i mean it this time, i am out for a while...code to write. |
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| Jayx1 |
also, a lot of people i know in canada are actually producing records aimed at other markets since despite stupid cancon laws, radio here simply wont play their music. To make it in canada you need to either be hip hop, pop, or adult contemporary. Stray from these formats and no amount of cancon laws will ever save you.
The worst thing to ever happen to radio here was taking away the conglomeration law. That was the only protectionist thing i supported and its gone. No amount of 33% canadian laws or anything to that matter can ever do what this law did to diversify radio. Now we have CHUM, ROGERS and SHAW (canadian companies) owning most stations hence why they all sound alike. |
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| ChemEnhanced |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
I believe you have misunderstood me. I didn't say they serve no useful purpose, I said that they do not serve the purpose that they are intended to serve. They serve a purpose by artificially promoting and upholding the Canadian recording industry thus allowing that industry to thrive despite largely substandard quality (granted there is a lot of good but there is a lot of bad too). If that is a goal that we wish to acheive then CCLs are a great means to that end. Unfortunately, the intended goal of CCLs are to promote and protect Canadian culture, which they do not.
Regarding market forces.... if a band.... let's say your friends, is good enough they should be able to command an audience and be successful without any assistance via government intervention. IF they fail it simply means that they are not commercially viable. People can succeed without the benefit of CCLs.... just not the mediocore ones. |
IMO the canadian culture laws are...in practice....a good idea. I have no problem with canadian artists getting exposure on canadian radio stations. It can only help these canadian artists. The problem is...if they get any sort of fame from it they move to the States in a heart beat.....aka Barenaked Ladies.
I do think the definition of what canadian culture is isn't defined enough. Just because you are canadian and you produce an album in canada doesn't mean it has a cultural base in canada. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by ChemEnhanced
I do think the definition of what canadian culture is isn't defined enough. Just because you are canadian and you produce an album in canada doesn't mean it has a cultural base in canada. |
and therein lies the failure of these laws. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by ChemEnhanced
IMO the canadian culture laws are...in practice....a good idea. I have no problem with canadian artists getting exposure on canadian radio stations. It can only help these canadian artists. The problem is...if they get any sort of fame from it they move to the States in a heart beat.....aka Barenaked Ladies.
I do think the definition of what canadian culture is isn't defined enough. Just because you are canadian and you produce an album in canada doesn't mean it has a cultural base in canada. |
but the barenaked ladies only made it in the US when they modified their sound to fit US formats. I would also argue that BNL would never get airplay on current canadian radio due to the conglomeration and the resulting cookie cutter formats. Their sound on their first album would probably be considered "too different" to fit into any of today's current formats. |
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| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ_Science
We need these laws now more then ever as we are signing more and more trade agreements with the US and other international bodies. Sure its great that we have laws that state that no canadain company can own more then one or two stations in a given area. ZBut do you you know that hte US companies who bring in media are not subjected to that law. What do you think is going to become of our culture once the US companies gain a stronger foothold here?
Anyway, i mean it this time, i am out for a while...code to write. |
Please tell me what is exactly Canadian culture?
What do we produce that makes us so different from others?
Because I definitely know it's not the type of music or movie stars we produce. (minus some folk like Stomping Tom or French Canadian stuff like Gilles Vigneault)
Better question might be what do we have that is worth protecting against Yank media juggernaut?
PS: For the record, we really need a strong beer to hash this out. ;) |
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| Jayx1 |
another thing. this so called canadian artist levy they put on blank tapes and socan fees that they collect? My friends both of whom are accomplished canadian artists with major record labels (one being virgin and the other EMI) have not seen a penny of this money.
Talk about a scam! |
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