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Calculating keys when beats are synced
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| Thois |
OK:
Lately i have been busy with harmonic mixing. Its really not that difficult for me with master tempo on (only speed changes not the key when sliding the pitch).
It gets hard with master tempo off, then i almost need a calculator etc. I mean, first you have got to get the 2 tracks in sync and after that i will have to calculate whether the tracks are in the same key (knowing 4% pitch change is 1 key up/down).
Example: Two tracks are in the same key, but one track is 128 bpm and the other one 140 bpm. Syncing them means they will not be in the same key anymore.
My questions are:
1) What do the big djs do (Armin, PVD), do they use master tempo on or off?
2) How do you resolve the problem with master tempo off? I mean, you need to calculate things for 5 minutes until you find 2 tracks which have the same key when the beats are in sync?
3) What should i do to solve this problem? What is common
Advice please! This problem really keeps me awake during the night :( |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
i dont know about the big DJs, but i would guess that they dont use pitchlock. there really is no need (imo).
to resolve your issue, have all your keys worked out beforehand, and have a general idea of the relative speed of your cued tune compared to a) the rest of your collection or b) the live track.
what i do is write all the keys on my records, and after a while you get an idea for which ones are a lot slower/faster than the rest, then ill take that tune and write its second key on it (ie what key it\'ll most likely be in when mixing).
also, its almost 6% when a key changes.
anywayz, there is a nice, big long sticky above you really should read ;) |
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| djthunderbird |
| I think it involves a lot of homework on the dj's part, and yes I do think that all the dj's that are mixing harmonically on cd's are doing so by mixing with master tempo on. It makes things so much easier for them. |
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| Nic |
| quote: | Originally posted by Thois
OK:
Lately i have been busy with harmonic mixing. Its really not that difficult for me with master tempo on (only speed changes not the key when sliding the pitch).
It gets hard with master tempo off, then i almost need a calculator etc. I mean, first you have got to get the 2 tracks in sync and after that i will have to calculate whether the tracks are in the same key (knowing 4% pitch change is 1 key up/down).
Example: Two tracks are in the same key, but one track is 128 bpm and the other one 140 bpm. Syncing them means they will not be in the same key anymore.
My questions are:
1) What do the big djs do (Armin, PVD), do they use master tempo on or off?
2) How do you resolve the problem with master tempo off? I mean, you need to calculate things for 5 minutes until you find 2 tracks which have the same key when the beats are in sync?
3) What should i do to solve this problem? What is common
Advice please! This problem really keeps me awake during the night :( |
Changing the the key 1 semitone is roughly a 5.5% change in pitch, a 5.5% change in pitch at 128bpm is about 7 bpm more. If your tracks are labeled with the bpm its very easy to see if they are about 7 or 8 bpm different.
I thought up this rule to help me, if you increase the pitch by 5.5% the key decreases by 5 (this is if u use that 1A/B through 12A/B labeling system) and vice versa
Hope this helps :) |
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| ieko |
| I don't think big DJ's always use master tempo, but I'm sure they use it. I think a big part of it is knowing your tunes. If you know your tunes you won't find yourself running around trying to find the right tune to mix with. If it's not the key you want, then you'll just go onto the next selection you had in mind, or just go with it anyway. hehe |
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| Thois |
thanks guys this is really interesting!
The only thing that surprises me is noone knows for sure wheter people like Armin mix with key lock on or off???
Well i will try to find out myself by listening some ASOT sets and compare them with some mp3's i have
ps no i am not trying to be armin or something, just using him as a reference |
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| Ryan0751 |
Well pitch lock does cause some artifacting in the sound (really only noticeable at large pitch changes), but it allows for undetectable corrections to the mix. So which do you think Armin would prefer? ;)
I seriously doubt that the top DJ's are even thinking about calculating keys and the like. Doing it by ear isn't that bad once you know your tracks inside and out... you just start thinking "what would sound great next..." and it usually works out. If not, pick something else.
| quote: | Originally posted by Thois
thanks guys this is really interesting!
The only thing that surprises me is noone knows for sure wheter people like Armin mix with key lock on or off???
Well i will try to find out myself by listening some ASOT sets and compare them with some mp3's i have
ps no i am not trying to be armin or something, just using him as a reference |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ryan0751
I seriously doubt that the top DJ's are even thinking about calculating keys and the like. |
why then does armin writes the bpm & key on his tracks? ;)
thois, i still think whether the big guys use pitch lock or not is irrelevant. do what works best for you. |
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| Ryan0751 |
Wow I did not know that... never seen anyone else do that :)
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
why then does armin writes the bpm & key on his tracks? ;)
thois, i still think whether the big guys use pitch lock or not is irrelevant. do what works best for you. |
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| Zild |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ryan0751
Wow I did not know that... never seen anyone else do that :) |
Many pros label their keys and BPM.
To the OP just make sure that you don't mix a track that is 128 with a track that is 140. If you know the keys and the BPM then select tracks that are in compatible keys with BPMs that are within 2 or 3 BPM of each other, so you won't run into any problems. |
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| alligator |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
why then does armin writes the bpm & key on his tracks? ;)
thois, i still think whether the big guys use pitch lock or not is irrelevant. do what works best for you. |
why does her write the bpm and key...simple...to many tracks to remember each bpm for each...let alone for a remix of a track...so as a profesional you take small steps to help you...everyone in any other profession uses a reference to what they do...therefore i don't see why people are suprise the pros and big dj/producers will write their bpm...it's normal and logical :) |
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| ieko |
| quote: | Originally posted by Thois
thanks guys this is really interesting!
The only thing that surprises me is noone knows for sure wheter people like Armin mix with key lock on or off???
Well i will try to find out myself by listening some ASOT sets and compare them with some mp3's i have
ps no i am not trying to be armin or something, just using him as a reference |
Well comparing ASOT may do you no good, he uses ableton live for that these days so it'll all be pitch locked. |
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