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Mentally handicapped having children? (pg. 7)
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| Theresa |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
^^^ the same is true for ANY parent who does not adequately care for their children.
if we legislate against the mentally ill, then we must legislate against EVERY parent who would be unfit...teens, drug addicts, alcoholics, the economically challenged, the intellecually challenged, and even those who simply won't be "good parents".
from a practical standpoint, it's virtually impossible...so the answer remains that yes they should be allowed, but they (or their families) ought to exhibit some common sense and refrain from having children if they can't provide for them, just as any "normal" person should exercise the same judgement. |
You think a mentally handicapped individual who quite possibly hears voices in their head is going to "exhibit common sense"? If you ask me, that seems like quite an irrational expectation given the circumstances.
This isn't a debate about legislating against mentally handicapped having children, this is a question of whether you feel a mentally handicapped person is fit to have children, and resultingly should be allowed to have them.
In regards to solution, what Sean said about people being required to take a test or sign a document, I think, is a great idea. There should be some kind of public involvement when it comes to bringing in new lives to our country. Who is going to defend a baby that cannot do anything for itself, and is in the wrong hands?
You can easily say "who cares? It's not our problem", but in the end, it will be. These people will become adults and will be dysfunctional, some may go on welfare because they cannot handle reality, others may leech of the medical systems searching for help. Then you might get the seemingly healthy people, but really have irrational fears, or slight psychosis of their own and they go bizerk and shoot people at their school.
This affects you in the end. You pay the taxes for the welfare, you deal with long waiting lines and extremely high prices to see doctors and psychologists. You have to put up with the co-worker who twitches unusually, or shouts for no reason. You have to attend the funerals of the people they killed because they snapped.
I am not saying it's all inevitable, I am saying that these are all possible effects because of the particular cause. And why? Because of bad parenting, and the premise that "it's not our responsibility".
I suppose this argument can be extended to anyone who is unfit to be a parent. Shouldn't there be a way to stop this?! Perhaps there should be an IQ test, and a parenting course that needs to be taken? Perhaps there should be a minimum level of income to have kids?
I mean, it certainly isn't like we're hurting for more people. The world is over populated, and with the way things are going, we wont have any fresh water to survive off of in less than 10 years (unless the morons in office start doing something about it!! But of course that just isn't right because they are taking away our freedom to drink and waste all the water we like, so who gives a about the people it affects later right? Even if it will be ourselves.)
I admire China for putting in their law in regards to children. It sucks that they continue to have tonnes of boys (some to unfit parents I'm sure), but the fact that China recognized the problem (of over-crowding) and took action against it is admirable.
Meh, that's a whole different topic on its own.
I would like to know if there is anyone who speaks from first hand experience and was raised by someone who has a Mental Disability? |
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| MarkT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Theresa
You think a mentally handicapped individual who quite possibly hears voices in their head is going to "exhibit common sense"? If you ask me, that seems like quite an irrational expectation given the circumstances.
This isn't a debate about legislating against mentally handicapped having children, this is a question of whether you feel a mentally handicapped person is fit to have children, and resultingly should be allowed to have them.
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Actually it is EXACTLY about that.
I stated that I think they should be allowed (i.e. legally permitted) to have children, but that they ought not (assuming their mental capacity prevents them from being fit parents).
If you disagree with them being allowed to have children, then you're advocating for them being prevented from having children, no?
No I don't think they themselves will exhibit common sense...but a person that challenged probably doesn't live alone and have "easy access" to becoming a parent either. I think the state should steer clear of this issue and the family and friends of the individual should either deter them from having a child or be prepared to step in and help raise it if they do not.
the poll question is very much a legal one. Whenever a legal question is posed, you also have to look at it from a practical standpoint. If we somehow determine that mentally challenged people should not be allowed to have children, how will that be enforced?
1. We'd have to first determine what consitutes being "mentally challenged".
2. We'd have to then be able to measure it.
3. We'd have to then have to be able to compel aspiring parents to submit to testing.
4. We'd have to have some form of monitoring or policing of those who are deemed to be mentally challenged.
etc. etc. etc.
it's virutally impossible...instead, it would be far easily to place some degree of legal burden on the families of the mentally challenged to propely care for their children.
i.e. if someone is at the intellectual/mental level of a 6 year old, they will require care for their entire life. We hold parents, or caregivers, of a 6 year old to a near indefinite standard of responsibility for what that child does...could we not do the same for the parents or caregivers of someone who is significantly mentally challenged? |
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| ghetto_fab |
| quote: | Originally posted by runningman
I can't believe that this is a debate..
No.
and because of the obvious.. |
There really isn't a thing hadicapped people couldn't do that we can. it might take them longer. Handicapped people have a mind of a child in some cases and just have to be taught over and over again. I believe that they could have childeren. if handicapped people can work do sports learn to read write such and such how can they not learn to take care of a child? might take them longer but I'm sure they will eventrually get it.......... guess people are saying no because obviously we are not in the same wave lanth as them....... where what we think and do are normal but to them how we do things are just plan wierd. |
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| StereoPrincess |
| quote: | Originally posted by Porky
yes
they are still human, not animals |
well actually animals can have kids whenever they want. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by StereoPrincess
well actually animals can have kids whenever they want. |
touche! |
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| Vivid Boy |
why shouldnt they have kids? its not their fault they met chuck norris.
or is it? |
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| Porky |
| quote: | Originally posted by StereoPrincess
well actually animals can have kids whenever they want. |
what i meant was that handicapped people still have rights as humans
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another thought, arn't certain mental illnesses genetically inherited? I know of a family with 2 normal kids, and 1 mentally handicapped kid (i think down syndrome). if these handicapped people have children, isn't there a chance for them to NOT be handicapped and be perfectly capable functioning human beings? Forrest Gump comes to mind.
:) |
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| Porky |
| quote: | Originally posted by Vivid Boy
why shouldnt they have kids? its not their fault they met chuck norris.
or is it? |
the more important question being... vivid are YOU allowed to have kids???? :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: |
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| tha_broad |
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| DigiNut |
Sorry Theresa, but all you're doing is repeating the same points over and over again about why you think that mentally handicapped parents wouldn't be able to take care of their children.
You've consistently and thoroughly failed to address the real issue here, which is that the individual's human rights, handicapped or not, ALWAYS override the rights of their yet-to-be-conceived children. The topic is not even open for discussion as far as I'm concerned - what you're advocating is fascism and if you read a little bit about Adolf Hitler's ideology, you'll find that what you're suggesting is very similar. He also advocated preventing handicapped people from having children, usually by sterilization.
It doesn't matter that you're advocating for the sake of the children. In a free society the state cannot ever be involved in something so overwhelmingly personal and private - it's a gross violation of the most fundamental of human rights.
This would have been a much more interesting debate if the question was merely whether or not they should have children, as opposed to should they be allowed to have them. By advocating for the latter you're essentially telling us that you're a maladjusted authoritarian wanting to impose your will on the rest of the world. Sorry, but that's how I see it - I cannot even believe you're still going on about this. |
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| Theresa |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Sorry Theresa, but all you're doing is repeating the same points over and over again about why you think that mentally handicapped parents wouldn't be able to take care of their children.
You've consistently and thoroughly failed to address the real issue here, which is that the individual's human rights, handicapped or not, ALWAYS override the rights of their yet-to-be-conceived children. The topic is not even open for discussion as far as I'm concerned - what you're advocating is fascism and if you read a little bit about Adolf Hitler's ideology, you'll find that what you're suggesting is very similar. He also advocated preventing handicapped people from having children, usually by sterilization.
It doesn't matter that you're advocating for the sake of the children. In a free society the state cannot ever be involved in something so overwhelmingly personal and private - it's a gross violation of the most fundamental of human rights.
This would have been a much more interesting debate if the question was merely whether or not they should have children, as opposed to should they be allowed to have them. By advocating for the latter you're essentially telling us that you're a maladjusted authoritarian wanting to impose your will on the rest of the world. Sorry, but that's how I see it - I cannot even believe you're still going on about this. |
"Should mental handicapped people have or be allowed to have children?"
This was the technical question. I asked both should they be allowed to have them, and should they have them. Both seperate questions.
You're focusing on the "allowed" one, which is fine, but don't suggest that this is what I am focusing on, because I am not. |
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| Vivid Boy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Porky
the more important question being... vivid are YOU allowed to have kids???? :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: |
haha i should only be allowed tohave one to replace myself when im dead. however if i have a kid im gonna train him to be my own personal butler so he wont be like me at all..hes just gonna serve me day in and day out and do things like cook and clean |
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