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Car Insurance (pg. 4)
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| ChemEnhanced |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
For some people, the best premium is the best insurance, particularly if those people are paying more for insurance than they are for the car. Most drivers under 25 will pay out more in premiums than they would ever have to pay if they totalled the car. Also, most insurers will raise the premiums if a claim is filed (or at least that is what the clients believe) so people will avoid doing so when financially possible.
I think the rules change when insurance is mandatory. If the industry were truly competitive it would be a different story, but from what I've seen, almost all insurers make it equally difficult to file a claim.
(This isn't meant to be an "insurance companies are evil" post - I'm just pointing out the state of the industry here.) |
The cost of the car is nothing....it's paying the med bills that is costly.
The truth is....insurance companies wouldn't write auto insurance if it wasn't manditory. Auto insurance is a guaranteed loss for insurance companies because of the government intervention. If it was a truly competitive industry and there was no government intervention your rates would probably be triple what they are right now. |
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| ChemEnhanced |
| quote: | Originally posted by rabbitjoker
The problem is that the "best premium" is not always the best insurance for the consumer.
Who wants cheap insurance when the insurance company makes it difficult to file claims? Who wants cheap insurance when the fine print is so detailed that the complete terms of insurance are difficult to determine? Who wants cheap insurance when the insurance company is inflexible?
Self-serve insurance = caveat emptor.
Like anything else - with insurance you get what you pay for. |
It's not difficult to make a claim....call your broker and tell them your vehicle is damaged.....there you have made a claim...that doesn't seem hard (I know....that is not what you mean by making a claim.)
I bet not one person (except for maybe Moral and myself) have actually read the Ontario Auto Policy. There is no fine print in the policy and it has been written in easy to understand terms. The problem is almost everyone gets their policy and puts it away somewhere and never looks at it....they figure they got insurance and are covered for everything.
Remember....an insurance policy is a contract....you pay for the services as listed in the contract.....why should there be flexibility. In reality....there is more flexibility then you would think. If I wanted to I could probably find so many reasons to deny claims and be within my right, as stated in the contract, to do that but the insurance companies know that in the end the courts will favour the poor little insured who tried to over the system. When it comes down to it....the insurance company pays many things it shouldn't simply because it's economically better for them to pay it then fight it. |
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| rabbitjoker |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
almost all insurers make it equally difficult to file a claim. |
This is not the case.
Moral and ChemE will agree with me on this one: there are certain insurancy companies that are known to be "easier" to deal with with respect to claims (often these companies are -not- the ones that are the cheapest, but offer the -best- claims acceptance, support for the dollar).
The above information comes from an adjuster who works for the same company as Moral and ChemE. When I told him who I was considering buying insurance from he had a LOT to say about which companies are reasonable, which ones put the screws to the customer, etc.
Certain companies have reputations for being easy to work with, easy to file a claim with, supportive of the customer, flexible with understanding the nature of the claim.
"fine print" was not meant in a literal way - of course there is no fine print in the contract... |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by ChemEnhanced
The cost of the car is nothing....it's paying the med bills that is costly. |
Yes, but insurance companies usually don't give people a hard time over serious liability issues... it's the collision stuff that you have to worry about with the less-reliable companies.
| quote: | | The truth is....insurance companies wouldn't write auto insurance if it wasn't manditory. Auto insurance is a guaranteed loss for insurance companies because of the government intervention. If it was a truly competitive industry and there was no government intervention your rates would probably be triple what they are right now. |
I seriously doubt that. If that were true, how is it that auto insurance premiums outside Ontario are a fraction of what they are here?
Insurance fraud and shyster lawyers are an issue, of course, but they're an issue everywhere and are much more plentiful anywhere in the U.S. (where rates are invariably lower) than Ontario. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by rabbitjoker
This is not the case. |
Hardly relevant anyway. As I said before, collision is where the insurers "put the screws", but most people under 25 pay more for collision than they do for the car and are afraid to file claims because they don't want their premiums to go up. Might as well get the cheapest rate possible if you know you aren't even going to file a claim. |
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| ChemEnhanced |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Yes, but insurance companies usually don't give people a hard time over serious liability issues... it's the collision stuff that you have to worry about with the less-reliable companies.
I seriously doubt that. If that were true, how is it that auto insurance premiums outside Ontario are a fraction of what they are here?
Insurance fraud and shyster lawyers are an issue, of course, but they're an issue everywhere and are much more plentiful anywhere in the U.S. (where rates are invariably lower) than Ontario. |
There are so many factors that go into the rate process that it would be impossible to explain them all....the thing is, Ontario has the best injury benefits of any province and all the united states. A large portion of the premium we pay for is because of these medical coverages. If the government would make it possible for us to elect which medical benefits we wanted then you would see a huge decrease in our premium. For the most party, the other provinces have nothing even close to the benefits here.
The other thing is ontario is the largest population and for the most part we in TOTA land live close to Toronto and are under 25. People pay more for insurance because they live in or around Toronto because the chances of getting into an accident are greater. Someone living in PEI doesn't have nearly as many cars to run into so the chances of them getting into an accident are less.
The provinces that have government insurance are typically lower but once again they don't have the same population as ontario. That is why you can't just look at the average cost of insurance in Ontario to the average insurance in another province or state. There is just too many factors. |
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| rabbitjoker |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Might as well get the cheapest rate possible if you know you aren't even going to file a claim. |
I respectfully disagree. :) |
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| ChemEnhanced |
| The best thing I can suggest is when you get your renewal look at the breakdown of how much it costs for each part of your insurance. You will see that the portion for collision is only a small part of the overall premium |
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| DigiNut |
Population may be a factor but our rates are high even compared to New York, California, Illinois, etc.
What's this about medical benefits... I thought we had "free" health care? :p
I think the real reason is what you said about the courts. That's the kicker. Judges here ALWAYS side with the poor victims even if their case is obviously a fraud, whereas judges in the U.S. and some other Canadian provinces are a bit more familiar with shysters. |
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| tatgirl |
| Someone recommend a good, cheap(er) insurance company than what I've got, thats NOT PC Insurance- I dont have time to wait. |
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| dEsidEL |
| quote: | Originally posted by rabbitjoker
The problem is that the "best premium" is not always the best insurance for the consumer.
Who wants cheap insurance when the insurance company makes it difficult to file claims? Who wants cheap insurance when the fine print is so detailed that the complete terms of insurance are difficult to determine? Who wants cheap insurance when the insurance company is inflexible?
Self-serve insurance = caveat emptor.
Like anything else - with insurance you get what you pay for. |
alrite, i'll be a bit more specific.. the best insurer for ur specific needs .. :wtf:
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by rabbitjoker
The problem is that the "best premium" is not always the best insurance for the consumer.
Who wants cheap insurance when the insurance company makes it difficult to file claims? Who wants cheap insurance when the fine print is so detailed that the complete terms of insurance are difficult to determine? Who wants cheap insurance when the insurance company is inflexible?
Self-serve insurance = caveat emptor.
Like anything else - with insurance you get what you pay for. |
great post. More then anything else it is the service particularly with regards to claims that distinguishes insurers. There are some companies such as Chubb that have much higher premiums but you get the Rolls Royce of claims service. Other companies such as many of the direct writers (no names in effort to remain diplomatic) you'll get a lower premium but in an effort to reduce costs the insurers understaff and the claims service sucks.
PC is alright though. As I mentioned they are underwriten by Aviva Canada who has the largest claims staff in the country. Additionally, they farm about 50% of their claims out to independent adjusters (mainly to my employer), independent adjusters always give the best claims service (for a number of reasons that no one here is really interested in). Subsequently, I would suggest that you need not worry about poor claims service with PC, however, it is a valid point and important consideration. |
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