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Hamas Set to Win Palestinian Election: Government Resigns (pg. 3)
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| Shamen DJ's |
| quote: | Originally posted by occrider
Dare I say it, but this might be a good thing. Hamas will now be the official voice of the Palestinian people. It isn't an 'out control milita' that the PA is trying to reign in, it is the PA. As such it's going to have to justify its use of force and negotiations with Israel to the rest of the world. |
I think there should be a truce with Palestine, with the condition that not one terrorist attack occurs, and if one does occur and the truce is broke, the UN will then refuse to recognise the Palestinian state & the Hamas as a legitimate political party, and Isreal will be given a free hand to defend itself as it wishes. This will prove whether the Hamas want to continue being a terrorist organization or be a legitimate government. The rest of the world should not negotiate with terrorist, and as long as terrorist attacks happen in Isreal, no one should negotiate anything with Hamas.
The Palestinians choose their destiny with their vote, and now they will have to live with the consequences whether that turns out to be good or bad. Palestine will never become a country, let alone a country with a viable economy and a good standard of living as long as it is a terrorist state. |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
They are still democratically elected though and the result should be respected. |
Thats the lamest argument I have ever heard from you St. Andrew!:mad:
Hitler too was democratically elected, should we respect him?
To those that argue the world should we deal with Hamas, just because the people chose them, realize that is akin to saying, the world should deal with and negotiate with Hitler as he strolls across Europe and exterminates millions because, well, he was the elected chancellor of Germany.:rolleyes:
The reality is the Palestinian people chose Hamas, and the Palestinian people must live with the consequences of their choices. (This is how democracy operates, if the people don't like what their politicans have done, they will make sure not to elect them again)
Democracy is all well and good (although I can't see how democracy in Palestine isn any different than mob rule) but it does not excuse the actions of their leaders. Milosovic was also elected by his people...
The world should not appease and do an about face with terrorist just because all of a sudden it is made abundently clear to it that they are popular in Arab society. Duh! If terrorist didn't have backing from Arab culture, they would not exist.. why is it such a suprise then when left to their own merits an Arab nation uneducated, poor, and tainted with a view of fear and hatered of the west, choses terror?
It isn't.
I have no problem whatsoever with Palestinians electing Hamas, good for them, hope it works out for the better, but if they expect to deal with the world or Israel, they must give up terror.
I see no problem with the world not dealing with Hamas, either one of two things will happen:
1) Hamas will clean up its own house and perhaps create and uncorrupt and economically viable nation with bureacratic institutions.
2) Hamas will, like Fatah, conduct itself a gang and either perserve the status quo or deteriorate the condition further.
If they want political change and negotiation with the world and with Israel, we should not expect the world to do an about face in its beliefs, policies, and morality just to speak with the Palestinians. No, Hamas must first recend their charter,:do away with their stated objective of "Eliminating the State of Israel".
For if that is their stated objective, why waste time negotiating? |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
If they want political change and negotiation with the world and with Israel, we should not expect the world to do an about face in its beliefs, policies, and morality just to speak with the Palestinians. No, Hamas must first recend their charter,:do away with their stated objective of "Eliminating the State of Israel".
For if that is their stated objective, why waste time negotiating? |
Yea that little gem was conspicuously missing from the manifesto that they just released. |
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| Shamen DJ's |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shamen DJ's
I think there should be a truce with Palestine, with the condition that not one terrorist attack occurs. |
I did forget to mention here, that the Hamas would also have to agree to Isreals right to exist, and negotiate on issues dealing with security, peace, & customs in relation to the border, to be recognized as a political party and not a terrorist organization. They should also choose on their own to cut all ties with other terrorist regimes including Iran.
If any terrorist attacks did happen during their regime, they should be expected to arrest the people involved, regardless of political party & hand them over to a court headed by the UN. |
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
Thats the lamest argument I have ever heard from you St. Andrew!:mad:
Hitler too was democratically elected, should we respect him?
To those that argue the world should we deal with Hamas, just because the people chose them, realize that is akin to saying, the world should deal with and negotiate with Hitler as he strolls across Europe and exterminates millions because, well, he was the elected chancellor of Germany.:rolleyes:
The reality is the Palestinian people chose Hamas, and the Palestinian people must live with the consequences of their choices. (This is how democracy operates, if the people don't like what their politicans have done, they will make sure not to elect them again)
Democracy is all well and good (although I can't see how democracy in Palestine isn any different than mob rule) but it does not excuse the actions of their leaders. Milosovic was also elected by his people...
The world should not appease and do an about face with terrorist just because all of a sudden it is made abundently clear to it that they are popular in Arab society. Duh! If terrorist didn't have backing from Arab culture, they would not exist.. why is it such a suprise then when left to their own merits an Arab nation uneducated, poor, and tainted with a view of fear and hatered of the west, choses terror?
It isn't.
I have no problem whatsoever with Palestinians electing Hamas, good for them, hope it works out for the better, but if they expect to deal with the world or Israel, they must give up terror.
I see no problem with the world not dealing with Hamas, either one of two things will happen:
1) Hamas will clean up its own house and perhaps create and uncorrupt and economically viable nation with bureacratic institutions.
2) Hamas will, like Fatah, conduct itself a gang and either perserve the status quo or deteriorate the condition further.
If they want political change and negotiation with the world and with Israel, we should not expect the world to do an about face in its beliefs, policies, and morality just to speak with the Palestinians. No, Hamas must first recend their charter,:do away with their stated objective of "Eliminating the State of Israel".
For if that is their stated objective, why waste time negotiating? |
I do realise all the problems, but when they are in fact elected by the majority of the ppl of Palestine, then it's not just a terror organisation, it is also the will of a country. So if we want to deal with the problem of the Isr-Pal conflict, we also need to talk to Hamas (since they are now representing the Palistinians). So to me it doesn't really matter anymore they are a terror organisation, they are still the legtimate goverment of a country (ie I still oppose their terrorism STRONGLY but I still think we should talk to them). To many ppl in the middle east the USA or Israel are the countries doing the terrorism, and in many ways they are using the same arguments as Israel and the US when defining terrorism, just in different ways. So since in their eyes you are terrorist, shouldn't PA or alikes negotiate with Israel or the US? And again personally I don't think the US or Isreal are the terrorists, Hamas are. However, I still understand their argument and I think that makes it a valid point to talk to no matter what if two goverments really are elected by their people. |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
I do realise all the problems, but when they are in fact elected by the majority of the ppl of Palestine, then it's not just a terror organisation, it is also the will of a country. So if we want to deal with the problem of the Isr-Pal conflict, we also need to talk to Hamas (since they are now representing the Palistinians). So to me it doesn't really matter anymore they are a terror organisation, they are still the legtimate goverment of a country (ie I still oppose their terrorism STRONGLY but I still think we should talk to them). To many ppl in the middle east the USA or Israel are the countries doing the terrorism, and in many ways they are using the same arguments as Israel and the US when defining terrorism, just in different ways. So since in their eyes you are terrorist, shouldn't PA or alikes negotiate with Israel or the US? And again personally I don't think the US or Isreal are the terrorists, Hamas are. However, I still understand their argument and I think that makes it a valid point to talk to no matter what if two goverments really are elected by their people. |
Try and answer the question at the bottom of my post.
Why negotiate?
Israel's official policy desires a two state solution, Palestine's official policy as of this morning is a one state solution: The elimination of the Jewish state.
Maybe its just me, but that seems a bit Hitleresque, no?
Ahh forget the lessons from history, lets appease them!:rolleyes:
edit:
and as for your argument, it still rings on hollow ears:
If Afghanistan or Pakistan for that matter had/were to elect democratically Osama bin Laden and the 'Al Q' religious party to lead their government, should the USA and the whole world just pause and say, wait, we must negotiate with these terrorist because now they rule their nations and they must be talked to?:conf: :conf: |
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| EvilTree |
It's certainly an interesting development and I'd like to know why Hamas chose this path. Certainly there are advantages of being leading party of even a quasi state. (Does Palestine have stuff like diplomatic rights?) Now that they're going to be in control of Palestinian security infrastructure, well, that makes some interesting options for further terrorist activities.
It may just be that Hamas is going to try to push Israel into some drastic action and use that to further fuel their jihad. |
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| skot_e |
First off i haven't been following this untill now, so let me ask, Was the election held fairly? Was it monitored by the UN? If not, how do we know the reults are infact true (Think Ukraine last year).
If the results are truely fair, then Hamas should be regarded as legitimate and given a chance to prove its ability to bring peace to the region (although if past history is an indication I doubt this will occur).
Someone already touched on the Palestinian state idea with the UN.I'd like to expand on that. If Hamas wants an independant state the UN must insist on demiltarisation of Hamas (much like the IRA), and for peaceful, political negotiations to take place, otherwise risk losing the idea of a Palestinian state all together. ie abandon the idea. This would put pressure on Hamas to follow the global expectations.
Fimally, I have never understood why Israel and Palestine can't just have a single state, but call it something like Jerusalem, or whatever, so that it takes away the argument completely. Or is that too simple an idea? |
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| InterMilan31 |
| DUDE this is awsome there was a little something lacking in the news especially when the top story a couple of weeks ago was a Nike Jet having problems landing HOORAY FOR CRAZY MIDDLE EAST NEWS! |
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| Purple |
| Hasent anyone compared Hamas Government in Palestine; with the Taliban government in Afganistan in here yet? |
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| Purple |
| quote: | Originally posted by Renegade
The irony is that Fatah party were actually voted out partly because of the widely-held suspicion of mass corruption within the party (I'm not sure how substantial these suspicions are though). This isn't so much a vote of confidence in Hamas, I think, as a vote of no-confidence in Fatah.
Hamas have always been active in within the Palestinian community, apparently (helping to build homes and schools etc.), so it's no suprise that they've looked upon favourably in comparison to the Fatah party here. The only problem is that this positive impact in Palestine is somewhat negated by their propensity to, you know, blow lots of up in Isreal.
Good article about them here on Al Jazeera:
http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/re...ervice_ID=10217
What I didn't realise is that they were being funded by fundamentalist, Islamic groups to counter the Fatah movement in the 1970s and by Isreal to counter the PLO movement at the same time. Yet more proof that the enemy of your enemy isn't necessarily your friend... :-/ |
Dont blame me for my lack of knowledge about true Hamas.
You see these are the things than CNN will never tell you, they are too busy in potraying Hamas as a bad terrorist organisation with corruption rooted deep within. |
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| InterMilan31 |
leader of hammas has just announced his first statement: DA JEWS GONNA DIE!!! - that from a unamed source
hamas or hummus? |
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