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Teddy Roosevelt on immigration
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| Shakka |
indirectly
| quote: | Broken Borders: Teddy Roosevelt's words to live by
The following is one of my favorite thoughts on the issue of immigration. It's from President Theodore Roosevelt in a letter to the American Defense Society in 1919, 10 years after his presidency.
--Lou Dobbs
"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...
There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
--Theodore Roosevelt, 1919 |
Perhaps a bit nationalistic, but I tend to think he is on the right side of the argument. |
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| tathi |
| To me it seems to promote that "You're either with us or against us" standpoint, which is very black and white. If you've ever lived in or met people in US / Aus / Pommie ex-pat communities around the world you will notice that while they exhibit an extreme amount of pride, loyalty, and fondness to their host country, they still love their mother country very dearly and will resort to their mothertongue when around their fellow countrymen. This is only natural and i see nothing wrong with it, but i do have a problem with gregarious communities of immigrants who refuse to learn the language and accept the values of their host country, I find this extremely disrespectful. |
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| Q5echo |
| probably the only thing i agree with Dobbs on...damnit! |
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| Konijn |
except that good ol' lou forgot to historicize roosevelt's thoughts -- which, incidentally, included very specific ideas about what sort of people would make the "ideal" type of americans...
(here's a hint: their complexions weren't exactly sunburn-proof...) |
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| stevieboy32808 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
indirectly
| quote: | quote:
Broken Borders: Teddy Roosevelt's words to live by
The following is one of my favorite thoughts on the issue of immigration. It's from President Theodore Roosevelt in a letter to the American Defense Society in 1919, 10 years after his presidency.
--Lou Dobbs
"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...
There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
--Theodore Roosevelt, 1919 |
Perhaps a bit nationalistic, but I tend to think he is on the right side of the argument. |
The problem with that statement is that nobody here is being discriminatory against the immigrants. It is their act of illegaly occupying the United States territory that is the problem. To quote myself from another thread:
"Personally, it doesn't matter if they do an excellent job of assimilating with the U.S. culture and contribute to society. One of the purposes of immigration is to keep track of who comes into this country. The point is they broke the law by coming into this land illegaly and by doing so they jeopardize matters of national security. People like that must be subject to punishment just like anybody else who breaks a law. This is no different."
| quote: | Originally posted by tathi
To me it seems to promote that "You're either with us or against us" standpoint, which is very black and white. |
Another great point. This reminds me of how the Patriot Act is strategically named to prevent any opposition as you stated in your example. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by stevieboy32808
\"Personally, it doesn't matter if they do an excellent job of assimilating with the U.S. culture and contribute to society. One of the purposes of immigration is to keep track of who comes into this country. The point is they broke the law by coming into this land illegaly and by doing so they jeopardize matters of national security. |
um, yeah. illegal immigrants = terrorists for sure :rolleyes:
i cant stand those in the 1st world condemning all the peoples escaping persecution or poverty to try and live the [american] dream that is so often talked about & beamed into their nations via satellite TV. can you blame them for wanting the same opportunities? a better life? |
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| josh4 |
Heres a big surprise,
| quote: | | The survey also shows an overwhelming majority of Americans – nearly 4 out 5 – is doubtful President Bush and Congress will find a fair and effective solution to the immigration crisis. |
heres to having faith in your government |
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| DJFreaq |
| quote: | Originally posted by josh4
heres to having faith in your government |
Yea. I just have this "bummer" feeling in my gut. I'll still vote every election, but it just dosen't seem that enough people care anyway. Kinda depressing.
I'm trying to be simplistic with my thoughts here. I get a tangible feeling of dissapointment when I think about the way my country handles foreign and domestic policy, and a lot of other stuff.
I know it's not all bad, but I know it's not all good. And I guess I'm still to young to really get it.
Pshh. Lame times America... lame times. At least we have the internet. :( |
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| HardTranceProd |
There's this little thing called 'globalization'. Ever heard about it?
"Suck me, beautiful." |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by tathi
To me it seems to promote that "You're either with us or against us" standpoint, which is very black and white. If you've ever lived in or met people in US / Aus / Pommie ex-pat communities around the world you will notice that while they exhibit an extreme amount of pride, loyalty, and fondness to their host country, they still love their mother country very dearly and will resort to their mothertongue when around their fellow countrymen. This is only natural and i see nothing wrong with it, but i do have a problem with gregarious communities of immigrants who refuse to learn the language and accept the values of their host country, I find this extremely disrespectful. |
+1
It a normal topic of discussion here in Toronto, which is a very (sorry be using this term) 'multicultural' city.
It floors me that people always want to seem to want to continue living like they were back in country 'X' and make no attempt at living like the country they're currently in!!!
I don't mind people bringing their culture, I find it some of it fasinating, but as soon as they start trying to chanage the laws or disrupt what was working find before, that's when I get pissy... |
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| stevieboy32808 |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
um, yeah. illegal immigrants = terrorists for sure :rolleyes:
i cant stand those in the 1st world condemning all the peoples escaping persecution or poverty to try and live the [american] dream that is so often talked about & beamed into their nations via satellite TV. can you blame them for wanting the same opportunities? a better life? |
Sorry if I might've come off the wrong way, but to reiterate I have no problem with those seeking the 'American Dream', just do it legally. That's the basis of my whole argument. |
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| josh4 |
| quote: | Originally posted by HardTranceProd
There's this little thing called 'globalization'. Ever heard about it?
"Suck me, beautiful." |
I'm not sure which way you were taking this but I'd like to clear up some misconceptions about 'globalization' this immigration issue has caused.
The term 'globalization' does not refer to a literal disolving of borders. Treaties like NAFTA, that are much the driving force behind it, are concerned with international trade. It focuses on increased global trade and the promotion of a global market with the removal of tariffs (a tax on imported goods).
There are side effects of globalization, such as the export of regional culture, which is really what people usually mean when they refer to globalization on a human-interaction level. But globalization can still exist and prosper in a world with clearly defined and enforced border lines. |
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