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what's the point of 'prayer'? (pg. 2)
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| Flotser |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spacey Orange
the fact that many people beleive in god, does not make it less crazy. |
It does make it less crazy actually...
because crazy in it's definition is bahving abnoramlly... and "normal" means "not deviating very much from the average" (wikipedia :) ) |
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| Moongoose |
| quote: | Originally posted by Flotser
about 55% of the world are muslim, cristian or jewish...
so you can't say they all are crazy...
but a person having an imaginary friend is quite rare and abnormal :)
And believeing in god is much more that just believing in the existance of something invisible. Its believing in something that created this amazing universe and watches over people and their behaviour - eventually punishing evil and helping the good. It's much more complicated ofcourse and i don't know how to explain it well... |
Not so long ago 100% of the world belived earth was flat, resting on the backs of four huge elephants which are in turn standing on the back of Great A'Tuin, the star turtle as it slowly swims through space. It doesnt mean they were crazy, just oblivious to the trouth. Note that since then people figured out the trouth/have been shown the evidence that earth infact is not flat and now almost 100% know that earth isnt flat. The remaining percentage that refuses to acknovledge the nonflatness of the earth even when confronted with substantial eviodence...well those people are crazy. But i dont let myself be bothered by them as i find peance in the thought that they will be the first to go up against the wall when the revolution comes.
And I prefer to think that belief in god is actualy refuge for the weak minded individuals who fail to find meaning in life and have to resort to the comforting thought that somehow their life is in the hands of a "higher power" thus avoiding all responsibility for their actions.
But thats just me, i would comment more on this but i have ben awake for nearly 60 hours and im actualy quite drunk so i cant really gather enough thoughts at the moment. |
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| Sunsnail |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moongoose
I love quoting George Carlin. |
I was looking for that quote to post here actually. weird |
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| NeoPhono |
I tend to see prayer as a means of hope in the absence of any. You can call it "weakness," but when humans find themselves in total despair, many use prayer as a last-ditch source of hope. I don't even think the outcome of a prayer (answered vs. not) is what is important. What is important is that those people who choose to pray find a source of motivation for carrying on. That motivation being if they continue to pray and live, whatever is hindering them might be miraculously overcome. You can call them crazy for doing that, but I see a person that is able to carry on in the face of disaster by praying to their "imaginary friend," to be much more beneficial than the person who has no hope and sinks into an introverted pit of depression.
Maybe my work with cancer patients has jaded my views, and I know there are many works that will tell you different things as far as patient outcome, but as far as quality of life goes, those patients that find motivation to live, be it through family, friends or "god," live their last days much more peacefully than those without.
So, in short, prayer is a crutch. Some can do without, some need it to carry on. However, if the only other option is negative, I see nothing wrong with prayer.
Now, if you're praying for money or for someone to die or something equally absurd, prayer is just a reflection of your own greed and faults. |
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| digitul punk |
| If one could prove God's existence then god wouldn't remain GOD. He's not something physical or human or even mortal for that matter.. look at it from this perspective.. he is something a human mind cannot concieve a 100% therefore eleminating any possiblity of PROVING his existence. |
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| Sunsnail |
| quote: | Originally posted by digitul punk
he is something a human mind cannot concieve |
?
where did you find this information out? |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by digitul punk
he is something a human mind cannot concieve a 100% therefore eleminating any possiblity of PROVING his existence. |
Actually, so far, his existence is exclusive to the human mind. |
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| sasslife |
| quote: | Originally posted by Flotser
about 55% of the world are muslim, cristian or jewish...
so you can't say they all are crazy...
but a person having an imaginary friend is quite rare and abnormal :)
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It wasnt that long ago we thought the world was flat and that the sun orbited earth. They werent crazy, just self obsorbed humans who believed they were the centre of the universe.
Like the sun orbiting the earth (thousands of years ago), god can neither be denied or confirmed.
I will stick to my self indulged existence. |
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| Omega_M |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Yes. If you have an imaginary friend, most people will tell you he doesn't exist.
If you believe in God, you have enough social narcissism, fear and sometimes even the lack of a possibility not to believe, so the belief is carried on. |
there are 2 types of people.
1) Those who say they have experienced god (a small fraction of the population)
2) Those who have been told of others having experienced god. (majority of us)
For people in 1) there is no doubt in the existance of god. It is people in 2) who either have belief or lack the belief in the truth of this statement. however, people who lack the belief cannot prove the non-existance and hence should not try to draw people away from their belief. |
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| Omega_M |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spacey Orange
i don't get it. is it meditative? why not just breath deeply instead of making a show of trying to communicate with something that is non-existent? |
flately stated, i would define prayer as a mechanism of fulfilling your desires. This is how i believe it works:
you want something in your life, but you doubt u'll ever get it. so you bow in front of God (a higher authority which you believe is capable of fulfilling your desires) and sincerely ask for the things you want.
What you are doing here, is positively affirming the fulfillement of desires to yourself, by taking help of an imaginary higher authority. It is said that things happen in your life exactly the way you want them to happen. Most of the times you are riddled with self-doubt and negativity. for example you want that job badly, but you have a much stronger negative feeling of not getting it, then you won't get it.
Prayer is an attempt to remove this negativity and infuse postive feeling of fulfilment of your desires.
I doubt if the philosophers in this forum will accept this. And, I call God imaginary simply because I don't know whether he exists or not. I don't discount the possibility of his existance. |
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| Fir3start3r |
I cannot say that I believe in an omniputuant being, however I cannot doubt the existance of something much greater than myself either.
I've had countless situations in my life where having 'faith' or 'believing' has turned 'wishes' into something unfolding before me.
I can't say I actually prayed, I don't think I did...maybe I did?
Did I actually tap into a spiritual well of fruition?
Sometimes it takes years for something to happen, other times, its literally seconds, but for me, for some reason, I've noticed it seems to be the stronger the longing and size for something to happen, the longer it seems to take. I may want it to happen right now but I know it never happens that way.
I just believe it will happen one day, either through my own path or crossing someone else's that will lead me to my wish.
Some call it karma or even luck but luck doesn't repeat that often.
Luck, to me, is a one time deal for a special situation.
It's a strange feeling to be conscious of something you've been wanting for so long to come alive in front of your eyes.
Now you're probably wondering, what the hell I'm rambling on about at this point and what can I give as an example.
Well, the most pivotal thing has happened that is going to change my life completely; my wife is pregnant.
Now, 14 years ago we knew we weren't going to have kids.
We liked kids, kids love us, but we agreed we weren't going to have them. Originally I agreed but deep down I knew this would change.
I never said anything about having them ever; I never argued with her about changing her mind. I had faith in knowing that some day I just knew she would.
One day she came to me and said that she has changed her mind.
I was so shocked I didn't know what to say.
We didn't talk about it recently or nary a mention.
At that moment there was a realization and a consciousnewss that I knew she would change her mind and here it was! 14 years later!
Prayer is different for everyone.
For some, there is a sense of order from chaos, such as a rosary for example. There is comfort in structure when the fear of a shadowy future grips their lives. There is comfort from isolation and brooding depression.
Prayer is a ritual to some and for others like myself, a quiet understanding that things will just turn out right.
I joke with my wife that even though she's Catholic and the 'religious one', I'm the one with all the faith and believe even though I never go to church on a regular basis.
Anyways, enough of my rambling...
Let's just say, that only in my darkest days did I ever actually kneel and 'pray' for help, either for myself or someone I knew.
All I know is that it's worked for me, gave me comfort and in the end, that's all that really matters. ;) |
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| MisterOpus1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
I cannot say that I believe in an omniputuant being, however I cannot doubt the existance of something much greater than myself either.
I've had countless situations in my life where having 'faith' or 'believing' has turned 'wishes' into something unfolding before me.
I can't say I actually prayed, I don't think I did...maybe I did?
Did I actually tap into a spiritual well of fruition?
Sometimes it takes years for something to happen, other times, its literally seconds, but for me, for some reason, I've noticed it seems to be the stronger the longing and size for something to happen, the longer it seems to take. I may want it to happen right now but I know it never happens that way.
I just believe it will happen one day, either through my own path or crossing someone else's that will lead me to my wish.
Some call it karma or even luck but luck doesn't repeat that often.
Luck, to me, is a one time deal for a special situation.
It's a strange feeling to be conscious of something you've been wanting for so long to come alive in front of your eyes.
Now you're probably wondering, what the hell I'm rambling on about at this point and what can I give as an example.
Well, the most pivotal thing has happened that is going to change my life completely; my wife is pregnant.
Now, 14 years ago we knew we weren't going to have kids.
We liked kids, kids love us, but we agreed we weren't going to have them. Originally I agreed but deep down I knew this would change.
I never said anything about having them ever; I never argued with her about changing her mind. I had faith in knowing that some day I just knew she would.
One day she came to me and said that she has changed her mind.
I was so shocked I didn't know what to say.
We didn't talk about it recently or nary a mention.
At that moment there was a realization and a consciousnewss that I knew she would change her mind and here it was! 14 years later!
Prayer is different for everyone.
For some, there is a sense of order from chaos, such as a rosary for example. There is comfort in structure when the fear of a shadowy future grips their lives. There is comfort from isolation and brooding depression.
Prayer is a ritual to some and for others like myself, a quiet understanding that things will just turn out right.
I joke with my wife that even though she's Catholic and the 'religious one', I'm the one with all the faith and believe even though I never go to church on a regular basis.
Anyways, enough of my rambling...
Let's just say, that only in my darkest days did I ever actually kneel and 'pray' for help, either for myself or someone I knew.
All I know is that it's worked for me, gave me comfort and in the end, that's all that really matters. ;) |
That's nice. Kinda skimmed it really. Actually, didn't read much of it. But your sentiments seemed nice. And I think I agree with it mostly.
Just thought I'd share this Taster's Choice moment with my friend Firestarter, along with everyone else. It seemed appropriate.
'Kay, so these two lesbians were walking down the street rubbing one another's crotches when a midget came from the alley and....................... |
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