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Philosophy Thread: Socratic Virtue Theory! (pg. 6)
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| RJT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Omega_M
Metaphysics and Mythology are for ordinary people who don't understand nor have the intellectual capacity to understand complex philosophical principles.
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This one sentence sums up your knowledge of the subject matter being discussed, as well as your respect for it, quite thusly.
Sorry m8 - But metaphysics is a legitimate branch of philosophical thought; The fact that you have such little respect for it is exceptionally disturbing to me, especially when added to your desire to view religious concepts as scientific or rational thought. |
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| Psy-T |
| quote: | Originally posted by RJT
I have a sneaking suspicion that morals do not equal virtues, but I'm not sure why- intuition? It's just hard to articulate. |
the most general definition of 'virtue' i am aware of defines it as "moral excellence, goodness, righteousness"... |
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| Omega_M |
| quote: | Originally posted by RJT
This one sentence sums up your knowledge of the subject matter being discussed, as well as your respect for it, quite thusly.
Sorry m8 - But metaphysics is a legitimate branch of philosophical thought; The fact that you have such little respect for it is exceptionally disturbing to me, especially when added to your desire to view religious concepts as scientific or rational thought. |
Ok, I take back Metaphysics. Sorry about that. Just checked the definition. I don't read western philosphy. Nor have I ever read it before. Technically, I thought it was similar to Mythology.
Dispute what else is wrong.
Edit : I may not be entirely wrong considering that Metaphyics has been criticized by people as something which is largly empirical and without conclusive proof.
In science one cannot state any fact without proof. Whatever I'm talking about religious philosophy, I consider it as having Proof (largely, a controversial statement). Metaphysics does not fall into either of the two categories. |
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| Floorfiller |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
Based upon this arguement one would have to conclude that Josef Mengele's experiments were virtuous acts. I think that as soon as you attach a moral connotation to something such as knowledge you run into problems as the quest for knowledge will not always be consistant with whatever moral code you impose whereas the information gathered will be. So it leads to the question can an end be moral or virtuous if the means were not? |
that's a very good point. what i said did come along with the assumption that knowledge is an innocent endeavor and we as people should only pursue knowledge that is deemed morally valid. i believe the way i explained the different topics setup a sort of check point based on morality. if something doesn't consist with our moral standard, then it would not be virtuous to pursue.
that doesn't mean that the search for that knowledge is wrong, but that it should be achieved a different way. |
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| RJT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Psy-T
the most general definition of 'virtue' i am aware of defines it as "moral excellence, goodness, righteousness"... |
It really has nothing to do with our definition of the word, it's just that after reading several (certainly not all) platonic dialogues I simply don't feel that this is how Plato defined virtue. |
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| Floorfiller |
| quote: | Originally posted by Psy-T
just a pointer regardless of your point:
if you have to define your own interpretation of your words, you shouldn't be using those words in the first place.
i may respond to your point later, just had to say that the general way you communicate in this thread so far has been lowering my desire to participate :/ (sorry for being brutally honest) |
were those my interpretations no...they were dictionary.com's. you know what i meant. people were just throwing around words so i thought i would find a definition that was consistant with how i was thinking about them in my mind to hopefully better address what RJT asked me.
and it's alright if you don't like my approach to talking about the topic...i wasn't really talking to you, i was talking to RJT. |
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| Psy-T |
| quote: | Originally posted by RJT
It really has nothing to do with our definition of the word, it's just that after reading several (certainly not all) platonic dialogues I simply don't feel that this is how Plato defined virtue. |
and how do you feel he defined it? |
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| RJT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Omega_M
Ok, I take back Metaphysics. Sorry about that. Just checked the definition. I don't read western philosphy. Nor have I ever read it before. Technically, I thought it was similar to Mythology.
Dispute what else is wrong. |
I do feel that many eastern religions (Hinduism, certain sects of Buddhists, Janist, Tao, and others) are closer to philosophical thought than what is todays western religion, however several aspects of your argument that prove troublesome to me.
First, science. What is it - How can you define it? Is it defined by the scientific method (repeatable experiments)? Is it defined by analyzing collected data to search for patterns? There really isn't any hard term to define it, so then I'm sure you ask how I can exclude religion?
The pursuit of religion isn't the pursuit of theoretical knowledge solely for the sake of knowing. While this is perhaps not the best definition of science, this is undoubtedly one I feel is a bit more encompassing than any strict definition, especially one that you would promote which seems to necessitate facts and proof and leaves no room for hypothesis and theory.
| quote: | Originally posted by Psy-T
and how do you feel he defined it? |
I don't know - And it's something that I'm struggling with very much lately. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Psy-T
and how do you feel he defined it? |
My thinking is that Plato used virtue to describe something we should seek to attain. Knowledge is the only thing of value to Plato therefore the only thing worth attaining, therefore the only virtue. I'm not certain I'm right and I'm sure there are some more subtle aspects to the language he employs that need to be examined for a full understanding but if I had to boil it down to something simple the above would be it. |
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| RJT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
My thinking is that Plato used virtue to describe something we should seek to attain. Knowledge is the only thing of value to Plato therefore the only thing worth attaining, therefore the only virtue. I'm not certain I'm right and I'm sure there are some more subtle aspects to the language he employs that need to be examined for a full understanding but if I had to boil it down to something simple the above would be it. |
Well said  |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by RJT
I do feel that many eastern religions (Hinduism, certain sects of Buddhists, Janist, Tao, and others) are closer to philosophical thought than what is todays western religion, however several aspects of your argument that prove troublesome to me.
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To simplify your listing of religions you may wish to just employ the term Vedic as it covers all of the Hindu based religions. I have to disagree with you though. I don't believe that Vedic religions are closer to philosophy then are the Abrahamic religions. I think that the style in which the vedics are written are more congruant with Helenic philosophy thus they appear more in-line. This should not be surprising when one considers the Aryans who wrote the Vedics shared a common ancestery with those that settled in Greece. We should also not forget that the cheif texts for Abrahamic religions are several thousand years younger then the vedics.
All the same philosophical issues are explored in the Abrahamic religions as in Helenic philosophy and the vedics. Most people don't pay any attention to them because the exploration is done by way of referance to earlier stories or subtle undertones in stories more then direct overt exploration. |
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| Psy-T |
hit us back when you feel like talking about the republic :p
also, if you wanna ressurect some older philosophy threads: click & click
:o |
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