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Russia is at it again (pg. 5)
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| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by tathi
it is possible to be patriotic and disagree with your countries actions you know ;) |
Actually, I think it's more accurate to say that a true patriot will be even more harshly critical of crimes carried out by his own country ;). Nationalism, on the other hand, is more along the lines of blind support for and obedience to the state. |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
THANK YOU! FINALLY someone sees it the way I do! Its the truth ...
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Sorry to say this man, but that's complete hypocrisy. You have no right to criticize the US with a double standard like that. [/QUOTE]
Here's a real life example - your friend really needed your help. You gave him money, economic support, and other help. Then while your friend is receiving all this help that YOU COULD'VE GAVE YOUR OWN FAMILY OR YOURSELF INSTEAD, this friend at the same time turns TO YOUR ENEMY for help and double-crosses you. What would you do?
These CIS countries are not friends. They're stabbing Russia right back, even though Russia helped financially and economically these countries for years since 1991. And what does Russia get for this now? |
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Here's a real life example - your friend really needed your help. You gave him money, economic support, and other help. Then while your friend is receiving all this help that YOU COULD'VE GAVE YOUR OWN FAMILY OR YOURSELF INSTEAD, this friend at the same time turns TO YOUR ENEMY for help and double-crosses you. What would you do?
These CIS countries are not friends. They're stabbing Russia right back, even though Russia helped financially and economically these countries for years since 1991. And what does Russia get for this now? |
The US invested billions upon billions into Iraq, does that mean the Iraqis are a bunch of idiots who are now stabbing their savior in the back, since they are obviously turning to the US' enemies (the Muslim extremists)? |
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Corruption is appalling in Russia. In 1990s when I lived in Sochi, Russia we joked about how police needs protection after gunmen chased police chief and his driver around the city, firing at him. No help came in for him. Eventually they got him to stop, and fired 3 rounds of AK-47 bullets in the driver and him, and wrecked the car.
But I never heard that on western news. All they care about is the Chechen war. We in Russia had bigger problems, with mafia mainly and how the government refuses to fight this cancer. |
Obviously the Maffia didn't have a whole lot to benefit from her killing, but the authorities did. Don't you see the problem? |
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| metalgearsolid |
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
The US invested billions upon billions into Iraq, does that mean the Iraqis are a bunch of idiots who are now stabbing their savior in the back, since they are obviously turning to the US' enemies (the Muslim extremists)? |
That is different. The US supported a dictator that put him into power in Iraq. The Iraqis still have not forgotten about Saddam. |
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| metalgearsolid |
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
Obviously the Mafia didn't have a whole lot to benefit from her killing, but the authorities did. Don't you see the problem? |
The gov refuses to fight the mafia because it is the state. Putin is the Don.
St. Andrew what do you do with the Swedish mafia? |
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| metalgearsolid |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Corruption is appalling in Russia. In 1990s when I lived in Sochi, Russia we joked about how police needs protection after gunmen chased police chief and his driver around the city, firing at him. No help came in for him. Eventually they got him to stop, and fired 3 rounds of AK-47 bullets in the driver and him, and wrecked the car.
But I never heard that on western news. All they care about is the Chechen war. We in Russia had bigger problems, with mafia mainly and how the government refuses to fight this cancer. |
We also care what Russia does with their mass media and natural resources. We are also aware of Organized crime. You just might not find it on mainstream media outlets.
Anyways, Russians sound like a crazy people.
How much vodka do you russkyes drink? |
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| Purple |
| I always felt that US always invested in other countries with their 'own' agenda behind.. they always ask for something in return like a true businessmen.. but when it comes to Russia helping these smaller countries.. its always selfless friendly support to a neighbour.. they dont ask for anything much back in return other than a 'Thank You' note. |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
The US invested billions upon billions into Iraq, does that mean the Iraqis are a bunch of idiots who are now stabbing their savior in the back, since they are obviously turning to the US' enemies (the Muslim extremists)? |
LMAO ... I actually FELL OFF THE CHAIR ON THIS ONE!!! HAHAHA ... INVESTED OUT OF WHAT - THEIR ASS?? USA is ripping Iraq off by stealing oil, by bombing out the country and helping incite sectarian violence (British MI6 agents last year were caught with plastic explosives and bomb-making materials in Basra by Iraqi police), by placing that DREADFUL embargo on Iraq between 1991 and 2003 that killed an estimated 1 million people, mostly women and children, by bombing out the country's entire infrastructure in Gulf War and turning Iraq into a third world country, by paying off Iraq in 1980s to fight a brutal and senseless war against Iran in which many Iraqis died (for example, Americans gave Iraq such weapons as missiles and mustard gas), now America ALLEGEDLY INVESTED BILLIONS (haha) of dollars into oil sector, WHICH IT HOLDS UNDER SUPREME CONTROL (monopoly), and USA has yet to rebuild any of Iraq's infrastructure, school, hospitals, bla bla bla bla ... LOL, man, you are very funny. |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by metalgearsolid
We also care what Russia does with their mass media and natural resources. We are also aware of Organized crime. You just might not find it on mainstream media outlets.
Anyways, Russians sound like a crazy people.
How much vodka do you russkyes drink? |
We have a huge alcohol and drug problem in Russia. We have a huge problem with corrupt officials, ignorant bureaucrats like Putin, mafia.
Over 50,000 Russians drink themselves to death every year. 30,000 Russians die from car accidents every year. The population goes down 700,000 every year - and that was slowed down by immigration from CIS. I've never TRIED alcohol, cigarettes, drugs or any other bull EVER. I guess you can say I educated myself well ;-)
Russians are not crazy. They're depressed, stressed out by very negative changes - from comfortable stable Soviet life, to poverty, himuliation and misery of the democracy. So many resort to drugs, alcohol, pills, suicide, murder, theft ... I've seen it all, I saw how people lost it all in days. I lost very good friends to murder, suicide, drugs, mafia ... I have enough ed-up moments stuck in the back of my mind. I kept my cool though ...
Now the government has lots of money, they have billions of dollars saved up, thanks to the government ownership of oil and gas industry (smart move!, oh wait, but WHY NOT SPEND THAT MONEY PROPERLY???). But they haven't spent much of it on the things that need to be done around the country, like infrastructure, pay doctors/teachers more, upgrade technology, devise smarter economic plans, root out corruption, etc.
Putin has many restrictions, from the West, from mafia, from his inner party. I dont see a positive change happening in Russia quickly, it will take long time because of corruption and mafia and western pressure to do things their way.
I would absolutely agree with that article, its very fair in my opinion. Thats how I feel, except the author is not criticising Georgia and USA enough. He's neutral. I'm leaning towards the pro-Russian views.
The article fails to note that Yushchenko and Saakashvilli were groomed by the West, they are American puppets. Americans actually tried building bases in Crimea this summer, but the local protests by ethnic Russians were so strong, the NATO ship with equipment some of which was marked with deadly symbols, were forced to retreat.
And all of that was attempted without the government's consultation of the people, but Ukraine voted over 80% against joining NATO. Dig that! |
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
LMAO ... I actually FELL OFF THE CHAIR ON THIS ONE!!! HAHAHA ... INVESTED OUT OF WHAT - THEIR ASS?? |
The US "invested" 330 billion something! And since oil production is actually lower now than before, the economic costs are actually bigger...
http://nationalpriorities.org/index...pper&Itemid=182
| quote: | | USA is ripping Iraq off by stealing oil, by bombing out the country and helping incite sectarian violence (British MI6 agents last year were caught with plastic explosives and bomb-making materials in Basra by Iraqi police), by placing that DREADFUL embargo on Iraq between 1991 and 2003 that killed an estimated 1 million people, mostly women and children, by bombing out the country's entire infrastructure in Gulf War and turning Iraq into a third world country, by paying off Iraq in 1980s to fight a brutal and senseless war against Iran in which many Iraqis died (for example, Americans gave Iraq such weapons as missiles and mustard gas), now America ALLEGEDLY INVESTED BILLIONS (haha) of dollars into oil sector, WHICH IT HOLDS UNDER SUPREME CONTROL (monopoly), and USA has yet to rebuild any of Iraq's infrastructure, school, hospitals, bla bla bla bla ... LOL, man, you are very funny. |
You could easily do the comparision even here, Russia forced many of these countries to stay in the Soviet Union, even though they did not want to, etc etc.
You clearly missed my point though, my point is that Russia might have been giving these countries cheap gas, but ffs they have asked for a lot in return too. As fast as they don't have a Putin-loyal man in power they threaten with a lot of stuff, not only to cut cheap gas. |
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