Originally posted by St_Andrew
The US "invested" 330 billion something! And since oil production is actually lower now than before, the economic costs are actually bigger... http://nationalpriorities.org/index...pper&Itemid=182
You could easily do the comparision even here, Russia forced many of these countries to stay in the Soviet Union, even though they did not want to, etc etc.
You clearly missed my point though, my point is that Russia might have been giving these countries cheap gas, but ffs they have asked for a lot in return too. As fast as they don't have a Putin-loyal man in power they threaten with a lot of stuff, not only to cut cheap gas.
Are you joking around here today? For real. Thats the cost of the war to USA, thats NOT an investment! You dont know the meaning of the words. USA spent billions of dollars in the Vietnam war. I guess in your terminology, USA "invested" in 1.5 million Vietnamese deaths, a country littered with Agent Orange and other chemical weapons. They invested in using force to bring "democracy by force" to Vietnam. Thats quite a difference between me investing in stock.
So when will USA be getting its dividents? LOL ... The "investment" is going actually to buy weapons, drop bombs and shoot Iraqis ... WHAT A NICE INVESTMENT ....!!! An investment to bring oil back for Americans, an investment to leave Iraq bombed out, poor and in violence. How clever ... investment for corporations and world elite ... SUCK THAT OIL, BABY!!!! INVEST IN MY 10 MILLION DOLLAR VILLA!
Russia is not threatening Georgia with military force. It HAS ALREADY USED DIPLOMACY. IT PROTESTED WITH PREVIOUS GEORGIAN PROVOCATIONS, it asked EU to notice. Oh, nothing changed. NOW, Russia is pushing economic buttons to tell Georgia that it shouldn't continue creating tensions. So what, you think Russia should say "SORRY GEORGIA, HERE, HAVE ANOTHER 50 PERCENT OFF GAS, HAVE ANOTHER BILLION BUCKS, WE ARE SO SORRY". Thats why Russia is in this situation, because it was a and let Georgia build up to start ppushing it around.
LOL ... of course Russia wants something in return!!! What do you think - Russia couldn't use that oil//gas for its own people? Its like, hey Georgia - have some cheap gas, while our own people are poor, starving, here, have some money. "Thanks for being nice", Russia, says Georgia. LOL, this is no cartoon. This is a deal, a discount for Georgian loyalty and friendship. But Georgia still wants the cheap oil and money, but its double-crossing Russia in the back by allying itself with USA and pressuring Russia out of the region! OH, RUSSIA IS SO EVIL ... THEY'VE SLAPPED ECONOMIC SANCTIONS ON US .... THEY'RE EVIL ... PLEASE, USA, HELP US.
Open your eyes a bit, man. You dont know whats going on.
tathi
quote:
Originally posted by St_Andrew
The US "invested" 330 billion something! And since oil production is actually lower now than before, the economic costs are actually bigger... http://nationalpriorities.org/index...pper&Itemid=182
I think you will find when the US invests money or aid into countries like Iraq or Afghanistan it makes sure the money comes back into its own pocket, its intentions are not altruistic at all. A good example is the highway built in Afghanistan which cost billions of dollars, they contracted the construction out to an American company who in turn subcontracted the work to a Turkish company who did it for it for a fraction of the cost, this meant the profits came back into the American company without them having to do any work. This is why America is losing the battle for the hearts and minds of people in Afghanistan, with 60% of its poppulation living in poverty and skyrocketing unemployment they watched on as the labour intensive construction of a highway which could have provided several thousand jobs to the Afghanis go to cheap Turkish labourers; you can understand why they have little love for the US.
The billions and billions of dollars that have gone back into the pockets of rich american companies through the war profiteering in Iraq and Afghanistan is mind boggling.
Magnetonium
quote:
Originally posted by tathi
I think you will find when the US invests money or aid into countries like Iraq or Afghanistan it makes sure the money comes back into its own pocket, its intentions are not altruistic at all. A good example is the highway built in Afghanistan which cost billions of dollars, they contracted the construction out to an American company who in turn subcontracted the work to a Turkish company who did it for it for a fraction of the cost, this meant the profits came back into the American company without them having to do any work. This is why America is losing the battle for the hearts and minds of people in Afghanistan, with 60% of its poppulation living in poverty and skyrocketing unemployment they watched on as the labour intensive construction of a highway which could have provided several thousand jobs to the Afghanis go to cheap Turkish labourers; you can understand why they have little love for the US.
The billions and billions of dollars that have gone back into the pockets of rich american companies through the war profiteering in Iraq and Afghanistan is mind boggling.
Yes, you know more about this economic thing that I do, but what you say makes much more sense. American politicians dont care and dont want to devise a proper plan that will make Afghani people's lives better.
astroboy
Russia's interests in Georgia have nothing to do with brotherhood or being good neighbours, or punishing someone for lack of gratitude (worst excuse I've ever heard). Almost all of Russia's attempts to influence the region have been motivated by an interest in Caspian oil. Russia's involvement is always underhanded and shifty (like the whole independance struggle between Abkhazia and Georgia).
The main reason I no longer support my former country in international affairs is the degradation of democracy and increased similarity to a soviet regime. Independant tv media is practically dead and the reports are increasingly self-indulgent and pompous. The political rhetoric is sounding increasingly Soviet (what do you expect with a ing mussor kgb agent in charge). Putin is using the law to selectively punish those that speak out against him... and when he can't use the law, they tend to jump in front of bullets themselves. He's trying to build an autocratic state with a firm hold on surrounding nations. Meanwhile the economy is house, no Western investor would have anything to do with the place. And no one gives a ... The people are so dumb and used to hearing grandiose Soviet rhetoric that they don't care about their freedom eroding, and the potential of their economy being squandered by a government that is totally corrupt and a leader who is obsessed with building an autocratic superpower and doesn't give a about improving people's standard of living.
occrider
quote:
Originally posted by Purple
I always felt that US always invested in other countries with their 'own' agenda behind.. they always ask for something in return like a true businessmen.. but when it comes to Russia helping these smaller countries.. its always selfless friendly support to a neighbour.. they dont ask for anything much back in return other than a 'Thank You' note.
What the kind of crack are you smoking? Have you seen Putin at work? Have you just been completely unobservant as to what's been happening in the news? FFS the whole European nat gas crisis?
shaolin_Z
quote:
Originally posted by occrider
What the kind of crack are you smoking? Have you seen Putin at work? Have you just been completely unobservant as to what's been happening in the news? FFS the whole European nat gas crisis?
:stongue:
metalgearsolid
quote:
Originally posted by astroboy
The main reason I no longer support my former country in international affairs is the degradation of democracy and increased similarity to a soviet regime.
Look Astroboy. It is the same everywhere in the world. Look here in the USA, for example, 5 corporations control more than half of all media. Such as Disney, AOLTIMEWARNER, News Corp, Viacom, GE. Those five control nearly everything you watch on tv or read in a magazine or newspaper.
How can you get accurate sources of information? HMM? If the means of communication are controled by a few corporations with not a single need to talk about what the real problems are in this country.
Anyways I think you left Russia because the girls were too pretty
;)
Magnetonium
quote:
Originally posted by metalgearsolid
Look Astroboy. It is the same everywhere in the world. Look here in the USA, for example, 5 corporations control more than half of all media. Such as Disney, AOLTIMEWARNER, News Corp, Viacom, GE. Those five control nearly everything you watch on tv or read in a magazine or newspaper.
How can you get accurate sources of information? HMM? If the means of communication are controled by a few corporations with not a single need to talk about what the real problems are in this country.
First, LOL at the video ;-)
Secondly, yes, in many countries, including USA and Russia, the media can't be trusted. Its true Putin seized the main TV network in Russia, though I think this move is maintaining stability and integrity of the country - we have enoough communists there and other extremists that can use the media to create havoc and unrest in the country. Despite this, ,I still think Putin is doing a much better job for Russia than ANY leader there since Alexander II in 1880s, LOL! He is strengthening the economy, pulling the country together, improving the standards of living, no doubt about it. In 6 years of his presidency he achieved many more positive changes than Yeltsin in 9 years. I avoid television, I dont watch it. I read online news from several sources daily and compare the material.
Russia has never really been a democratic country. What Putin is doing is not absolutely democratic, but it is a VERY HUGE and noticeable step to democracy. I know many will debate this, but thats how I see it. I got millions of Russians' peoples testimonies to back that ...
As for lack of investments, its a lie ... many many millions of dollars have been pouring into Russia, even after Yukos problems:
Originally posted by astroboy
Russia's interests in Georgia have nothing to do with brotherhood or being good neighbours, or punishing someone for lack of gratitude (worst excuse I've ever heard). Almost all of Russia's attempts to influence the region have been motivated by an interest in Caspian oil. Russia's involvement is always underhanded and shifty (like the whole independance struggle between Abkhazia and Georgia).
Does Georgia have oil, gas, natural resources that Russia needs, strategic bases? No, no, no ... Russia doesnt want to lose support and influence in soouth so its paying and discoounting Georgia for its support. Pretty easy position. And in no way this involves force. Thats why Russia didnt recognize the breakaway Georgian provinces of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, which clearly favour Russia. LOL ... Georgia is not bordering Caspian Sea at all. Russia is just fighting for political influence vs. NATO, EU, and USA - and these other forces have been digging in there, buddy.
If Russia was hostile for oil, then right know you'd see a Russian puppet in oil-rich Azerbaijan - which is not the case, buddy. Russia has plenty of its own gas and oil - last time I checked Russia owned like 5-10 percent of world's oil and 30-40 percent of world's natural gas. There you go.
star-traveller
quote:
Originally posted by St_Andrew
On a smilar note...
Oh please stop quoting this junk press from that site.
Didn't you know that BBC is the state channel in the UK?
Though sometimes it's nice to have a really critic opinion from them but most of the time they don't even know what are they writing about. They just want to shoot with another screaming headline on their front page.
Alot of journalists died during the campaign in Chechnya. And I'm sure they picked up her to write about ONLY because there was a fact that she opposed the current regime in Russia.
I really galled about stuff they wrote, how do they know that she is "one of the few remaining high-profile, independent journalists in Russia". Did they count everybody already ?
Some stupid just played around with the fact she was murdered and transformed that into the political case.
Hate this thing in mass media. Russian media are doing the same towards the West news.
Magnetonium
quote:
Originally posted by star-traveller
Oh please stop quoting this junk press from that site.
Didn't you know that BBC is the state channel in the UK?
Though sometimes it's nice to have a really critic opinion from them but most of the time they don't even know what are they writing about. They just want to shoot with another screaming headline on their front page.
Alot of journalists died during the campaign in Chechnya. And I'm sure they picked up her to write about ONLY because there was a fact that she opposed the current regime in Russia.
I really galled about stuff they wrote, how do they know that she is "one of the few remaining high-profile, independent journalists in Russia". Did they count everybody already ?
Some stupid just played around with the fact she was murdered and transformed that into the political case.
Hate this thing in mass media. Russian media are doing the same towards the West news.
I agree with some, here's my details on it:
Western media NEVER PLACED a spotlight on this investigator, didnt acclaim her as a independent anti-government, never called her publicly as a great supporter of the West, which she certainly wasn't. Now that she tragically was murdered, West uses her as a tool to make Russian government look bad, those bastards ...
She did her work about Chechnya, and all the abuses there - certainly she received death threats and some people were not happy aboout it. Probably Chechen bureacrats didnt want to get in trouble or in negative attention for the big report she was allegedly to release soon, so they put her away - she was well known and respected, by the way. I am very certain she was killed because of her work, but it wasnt the Russian government - they had nothing to gain andn everything to lose from it. A lot of shocking articles and stories come out of Russian internet media every week that I read, and those reporters are not killed the next day.
Another even MORE shocking murder a month ago that received little western attention, sadly:
Sept 2006 - first deputy chairman of Russia's central bank Andrei Kozlov shot dead in Moscow
This guy cracked down on corruption, he fought illegal bank system and corrupt business. He was the top government bank monitoring official, uncorrupt and he wouldn't be manipulated. And so they (mafia, banks who he ed over) killed him for it. Its sad, but Russia is decades away from real democracy. The government is one big and doesnt want to grab mafia by the balls - I think its because mafia helped bring Putin to power and they made some backroom deals. Who knows ...
The government says they want democracy for people, they give self-government to regions, reach out to random citizens, criticize and ridicule corruption, remove their own officials who are caught bribing or lying.
But when mafia is in play, Putin doesnt do anything ... Either he is manipulated by bigger players, or he is a chicken and afraid to go after the roots of the corruption in Russia - organized crime and mafia.
star-traveller
quote:
Originally posted by metalgearsolid
Anyways, Russians sound like a crazy people.
How much vodka do you russkyes drink?
Watch less amount of Americans movies pal.
And when you have time on the next holidays fly to the London. Get to the one of pub at 12am during the workweek inside the financial district (canary wharf as an example) and take a look around you.
You would discover alot of people standing there and drinking. You wouldn't even suspect that those people are the typical clerks who are working in the skyscrapers around and this is just a lunch break for them.
That is just another rumour that Russians drink too much.
Q5echo
quote:
Originally posted by Magnetonium
Yes, you know more about this economic thing that I do, but what you say makes much more sense. American politicians dont care and dont want to devise a proper plan that will make Afghani people's lives better.
no she doesn't. tathi's feeding you a bunch of anti-war propaganda.
that highway doesn't cost billions of dollars. no highway does. we put up $80 million Japan put up $50 million and the Saudis put up $50 million. it's up to Afghans who builds it.
