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How much do DJ turned producers actually produce (pg. 4)
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| quote: | Originally posted by Nemesis44
My own personal axe to grind with this issue actually comes from producers I know locally in my area. I wont mention names but when some guy who has never produced a single track in his life suddenly starts producing, not on his own mind you, then comes up with one of the bigger tracks of the year in has particular genre you have to ask yourself "what the is going on here?".
The reality is this... I have to accept that maybe my productions are still , this guy is extra talented and I'm not, perhaps my tunes are just sucky but the techniques are fine and so on.
I really do not want to give away any info as this person is actually a freind of mine and it's not that I don't wish him any success on the contrary, but it's my frustration with my lack of it.
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Well i can see that point but there could be some other factors that you need to take into account.
Maybe the guy has a very good ear for what works in a track but only lacks the technical ability from getting the ideas down into the music, maybe thats where his strengths are?
Also like one of the posters stated, he might have the contacts needed to succeed, anyone can make a great record, getting it out there is half the battle & it makes it a hell of a lot easier if you have good contacts with labels etc to get yourself out there!
I dont frown upon people who use engineers, people seem to think that most people who use engineers means that they dont write any of the track themselves, if they walk in with the melodies, ideas etc & all that they require is a mixdown/mastering engineer i dont see it as a problem. The end of the day, i could guarantee the person dancing on the dance floor to the track wont be worrying about who engineered it.
Its a grey area for sure, but unless people know for sure what goes on between an engineer & the producer/composer of the track then it's niave to make sweeping generalisations |
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| G-Con |
I suppose reading all these replies, many of you seem to be saying "who cares who made the track, if its good, its good and thats all that matters".
I can see the validity in this point but the problem is I "DO" care. In the past, i might have heard a few tunes from a producer and I would think how much i like that guys work and how talented he is. But now for all i know, its someone else who i actually really like but I'll never know who because he doesnt get credit for his work, some DJ does instead.
I don't necessarily think there is anything wrong with having an engineer do the mastering on a track and maybe the mixing to an extent but the idea that they might have created all the sounds and used their knowledge of effects to achieve the "idea" the DJ has got, to me seems like cheating. Because really, then, all the DJ has done is the arrangement.
I do agree though that most of us won't have a clue as to how much or how little an input a DJ has had in creating a tune, so we can't really criticise unless we know for a fact that they did bugger all. On the flip side however, I won't ever give credit to a DJ for a good production without knowing if he deserves the credit... |
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| zodiac9 |
In the world of rock and pop, sound engineers are used almost 100% of the time. Hardly anyone produces their own tracks. The artists play the music, and might be involved a little in mixdown, but that's all. To me, it's no different when a DJ composes and arranges a song and then has a sound engineer help them get it sounding professional. All that matters to me is that the DJ has has actually composed and created the song themselves. It's impressive when a producer does every part of a production, don't get me wrong, but I don't look down on anyone who gets help with mixdown and mastering.
Hell, I'd love to get some help from a sound engineer, I'm just not willing to shell out the bucks for it just yet. Would be nice to find a partner that could help me with that. |
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| Derivative |
The issue of priorities hasn't been brought up yet but its worth mentioning.
As amateur producers you will tend to focus on little details alot. Sometimes you can do this to the exclusion of everything else, and to the entire point of the track.
I have noticed that it is common for instance for a number of people on this forum to obsess over bass drums and getting it 'just right.' Sometimes spending days or even weeks tweaking one which is crazy when you think about it.
On the scale of things it is insignificant and not worth the time or effort that is often put into it. Most people don't really care about the kick drum or the way it sounds so long as its there.
There are downsides as well to this type of perfectionist approach to producing - you never get anything done because you spend so much time obsessing over one tiny, insignificant detail in a tune. Its easy to lose sight of whats important in a song - I've done this alot, but I don't do it so much anymore.
Sometimes I still find myself tweaking things to death though. But these days if its not working, I will either abandon it or try a different sound. I used to kill whole mixes by obsessing about the details and killing the energy of the tune by constantly fiddling with it.
You could do this for years and not get anywhere. If theres anything that talentless guy can do that we can't - its get stuff done - even if its not all his work. He might not have a great tune at the end of it, but its a tune nonetheless. Whereas if I had to be honest about it, most of the work I have is not in a finished state such that it could be called a tune. More like a bunch of loops strung together into a rough skeleton track. |
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| WirelessEyes |
Also with producing, learning an instrument and/or theory is so important.
I wonder which big name dj's write a melody or come up with a harmonic idea. I wouldnt be suprised if many dj's do that. |
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| richg101 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Allied Nations
DJing is ing hard work! |
djing isnt hard work! you can either choose good records or not.. mixing them is a piece of piss. its all down to what tracks you like. i only play tracks i like.
and i havnt had my track played by armin. it was a guy who was on 101 recordings. i respect armin because of his dedication to trance. he may not make lots and lots of amazing tracks imo, but he is the main reason trance is on the up again.
i do retract my harsh statements on eddie halliwell. - i just had a bad experiece with one of his sets. it was a let down for me after i heared all the big talk about him. but i still think it is very hard to belive that a 'non producing' dj one minute, can turn into a producer who makes a track that is worthy of spinning. without the help of a pro producer anyway.
| quote: | Originally posted by Floorfiller
it's really hard for me to bite my tongue whenever i see him post, but you know...you try not to discourage people... |
im sorry my posts upset you:cool:
i wont get discouraged by your comments so next time if there is a problem then let me know. i could do with some advise from one of you seasoned pro's here on TA...:eek: |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | | You could do this for years and not get anywhere. If theres anything that talentless guy can do that we can't - its get stuff done - even if its not all his work. He might not have a great tune at the end of it, but its a tune nonetheless. Whereas if I had to be honest about it, most of the work I have is not in a finished state such that it could be called a tune. More like a bunch of loops strung together into a rough skeleton track. |
Yeah, same here. Great post. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| On the other end of things, I have a friend who has made over eighty minutes worth of tracks in the last year and a half or so. Are they all great? No, but it's still pretty impressive how much he has gotten done by focusing on tracks as a whole rather than engineering "perfect" sounds, as I often try to do. And he hasn't been making electronic music any longer than I have. |
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| zodiac9 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Derivative
The issue of priorities hasn't been brought up yet but its worth mentioning.
As amateur producers you will tend to focus on little details alot. Sometimes you can do this to the exclusion of everything else, and to the entire point of the track.
I have noticed that it is common for instance for a number of people on this forum to obsess over bass drums and getting it 'just right.' Sometimes spending days or even weeks tweaking one which is crazy when you think about it.
On the scale of things it is insignificant and not worth the time or effort that is often put into it. Most people don't really care about the kick drum or the way it sounds so long as its there.
There are downsides as well to this type of perfectionist approach to producing - you never get anything done because you spend so much time obsessing over one tiny, insignificant detail in a tune. Its easy to lose sight of whats important in a song - I've done this alot, but I don't do it so much anymore.
Sometimes I still find myself tweaking things to death though. But these days if its not working, I will either abandon it or try a different sound. I used to kill whole mixes by obsessing about the details and killing the energy of the tune by constantly fiddling with it.
You could do this for years and not get anywhere. If theres anything that talentless guy can do that we can't - its get stuff done - even if its not all his work. He might not have a great tune at the end of it, but its a tune nonetheless. Whereas if I had to be honest about it, most of the work I have is not in a finished state such that it could be called a tune. More like a bunch of loops strung together into a rough skeleton track. |
Great post Derivative. Yet again you guys here help me get my priorities in check. I do obsess over little details sometimes, and will abandon a decent track because I feel a preset patch I spent 2 hours tweaking, just isn't good enough. You can't be lazy about production, but you can't get stuck by obsessing over things. Honestly, I obsesses over the mix more than anything else. Being that we have to compete with Joe DJ, who can get other people to do the hard work, us producers that are doing it all ourselves really need to prioritize and put things into perspective. |
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| mysticalninja |
| i duno maybe its just me but mixing is so easy, if ur sound is eq'd right it mix's itself. |
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| richg101 |
| quote: | Originally posted by mysticalninja
i duno maybe its just me but mixing is so easy, if ur sound is eq'd right it mix's itself. |
+1
i used to be one of the guys who really was amazed by big name dj's, and what they did. i aspired to be one one day. but after djing through 8 years, and being able to experience 'the year of trance' it shows how easy it is.. getting tempo's sync'd=piss easy, eqing=piss easy
the hardest part is being able to pay for all the tunes you want!
almost all producers of dance music are dj's - so these days we dont need 'non producing dj's' they had their day, but now i wanna hear a 'artist', not a human juke box. its nice to know you are hearing a new track the artist has made himself, that has not even been sent to labels etc. |
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| Derivative |
| quote: | Originally posted by mysticalninja
i duno maybe its just me but mixing is so easy, if ur sound is recorded right it mixs itself. |
Fixed. |
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