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Ahmadinejad meeting Jews - Video clip (pg. 3)
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| Lilith |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
Yeah, those sand******s just don't get it do they? |
Watch your mouth.
All I'm just asking is why people conveniently overlook the injustices, invasions and civil rights abuses of arabs to other arabs and dont bother to compare them to jewish settlers vs everyone else it seems.
There just seems to be way too much in the way of double standards for my liking.
| quote: | | When a democraticaly elected Goverment is doing it, it's makes things quite different. |
Because democratic bullets hurt more?
Democracy has a rather long and sordid history of oppression and I'm wondering why you think this is such a contemporary issue, democratic governments have been screwing other nations since the idea of democracy was invented. |
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| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
So you much be REALLY upset at the 'New World' huh (ie. Canada/US)? |
Jesus! Atleast read people's post before you plan on responding to them, you may come across as less of an idiot that way (but not by much ;)).
Hey look:
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
Becuase millions of people are being treated like dogs for a land that others claim as theirs becuase of thier religion. |
That means, this is happening NOW! :crazy:
That was... WAY BACK THEN! Nothing that we can do about it now. On the other hand, unless you approve of those "savage" Indians being massacred to near extinction, and theft, this might bother you a little bit; atleast enough to condem it. |
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| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lilith
Watch your mouth.
All I'm just asking is why people conveniently overlook the injustices, invasions and civil rights abuses of arabs to other arabs and dont bother to compare them to jewish settlers vs everyone else it seems.
There just seems to be way too much in the way of double standards for my liking. |
Probably because a good majority of them took place with Western support. And when I say probably, I mean definetly. That's besides the point though, as it totaly irrelevant to this issue.
| quote: | Originally posted by Lilith
Because democratic bullets hurt more?
Democracy has a rather long and sordid history of oppression and I'm wondering why you think this is such a contemporary issue, democratic governments have been screwing other nations since the idea of democracy was invented. |
No, my point was, if you really want to make comparions of what's more depraved, I think people electing goverments that carry out ten fold the attrocites and injustices is not only far worse, it's complete and utter irresponsible and repulsive; it's not only the leaders who have blood on their hands. If you live under a dictaorship, there's not much you can do about it you know, especailly when the sole super power in the world intends maintaining status quo for strategic and economic interests, what disgusting referred to as "maintainng stability in the region" or "looking after our national interest." |
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| Lilith |
Democracies have elected people to kill other people, wage wars and sell commodities ever since some greek said too another greek, "really should do something about those persians..."
As for western societies being the root of all evil in the last 60yrs?
I think not, mostly because you've forgotten that there was more than one big, ugly superpower around for the majority of that and that was the Soviet's. If you want to, throw the other communist blocks as well that where quite happily selling armaments too anyone with the cash, it wasnt just the western world out there making a dollar off the suffering of people.
They also had quite a big helping hand at some large scale destabilisation of the middle east, africa and asia, sometimes to the point where it was first hand by direct involvement.
It's just not as simple as blaming the west as everyone would like |
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| shaolin_Z |
| You're saying that as if I'm unaware of it or something. If the Soviet Union hadn't collapsed, and was still up to no good, I'd be criticizing it rightnow aswell. So what your point? Can't handle any criticism of "the West"? I'm not a big fan of nationalism, as it's nothing more than blind alliegance to the state; that's reflective of a fairly totalitarian outlook. But allegiance to and identifying with a particular hemisphere, I'm not even sure what to call it, and frankly, is far more ridiculous. What's interesting though is how defensive people get when you criticize a STATES policy. Eigther they can't make a distinction between the state and the people living under it or they truly deepseeded totalitarian sentiments, I fail to see any other reason why they would take it personaly. Please do explain to me why you're getting so upset, if you can that is. |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
Do you think wiping out the natives was a good thing?
I dont have contempt for the "new world" becuase the people who took part in the genocide of Natives are long gone.. about 400 years ago???
But the Palestinians that are alive today are going through a similar circumstance...not as extreme but their land is being taken away from them
Its lame when people keep bringing up what happened to North America 400 + years ago and compare it to whats happening NOW infront of our eyes!!!! |
You do realize that there still Native Indians living with that legacy TODAY right?
Are we forgetting all the major concessions that they're getting EVEN TODAY?
Why should 400 years make any difference other than not to sound hypocritical.
The fact still remains that this land was conquered. |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
Jesus! Atleast read people's post before you plan on responding to them, you may come across as less of an idiot that way (but not by much ;)).
Hey look:
That means, this is happening NOW! :crazy:
That was... WAY BACK THEN! Nothing that we can do about it now. On the other hand, unless you approve of those "savage" Indians being massacred to near extinction, and theft, this might bother you a little bit; atleast enough to condem it. |
And I think you need to read my reply to CK...
Time is not an excuse when the end result is the same; especially when CONCESSIONS ARE STILL BEING MADE TODAY.
I think you need to understand the word 'empathy' before posting your heedless rant sometimes... ;) |
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| Lilith |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
You're saying that as if I'm unaware of it or something. If the Soviet Union hadn't collapsed, and was still up to no good, I'd be criticizing it rightnow aswell. |
Yes, but you conveniently don't mention it in fairly much all discorse concerning historical, warlike activities in the middle east where the US and other western nations are poking their noses into things.
Essentially the US was there because if they where not, the Soviets would have been as part of the whole cold war theatre.
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
So what your point? Can't handle any criticism of "the West"? |
My point is, people are ignoring the other factors that where going on between 1947 too 1990 that where more than foreign government backed displacements, wars and invasions. They where a part of the whole US-Soviet jousting game going on at the time, dont get me wrong (again) this isnt a good thing.
People end up just as dead from a democratic 5.56mm as they do from a communist 7.62mm.
If it wasnt just the west selling them guns and setting up 'friendly fascism' in remote countries, it was also the soviets doing the same right next door which just destabilised everything.
A lot of people got caught up in puppet government wars.
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
Please do explain to me why you're getting so upset, if you can that is. |
Please tell me youre just not that freaking ignorant to suggest that I'd use the word 'sand******' to demean anyone and comparing Israel to South African apartheid wasnt just there to bait me out personally?
Because if you did, my opinion of you might get dumped down to a whole new level of scumbag. |
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| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lilith
Please tell me youre just not that freaking ignorant to suggest that I'd use the word 'sand******' to demean anyone and comparing Israel to South African apartheid wasnt just there to bait me out personally?
Because if you did, my opinion of you might get dumped down to a whole new level of scumbag. |
Check your PM box, I explained it in detail there. And no, I would never say something like that to bait you out personaly [EDIT: especially] after what you told me earlier. Don't be silly ;). |
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| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lilith
Yes, but you conveniently don't mention it in fairly much all discorse concerning historical, warlike activities in the middle east where the US and other western nations are poking their noses into things.
Essentially the US was there because if they where not, the Soviets would have been as part of the whole cold war theatre.
My point is, people are ignoring the other factors that where going on between 1947 too 1990 that where more than foreign government backed displacements, wars and invasions. They where a part of the whole US-Soviet jousting game going on at the time, dont get me wrong (again) this isnt a good thing.
People end up just as dead from a democratic 5.56mm as they do from a communist 7.62mm.
If it wasnt just the west selling them guns and setting up 'friendly fascism' in remote countries, it was also the soviets doing the same right next door which just destabilised everything.
A lot of people got caught up in puppet government wars.
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Don't confuse irrelevance with conveniece. The state of Israel wouldn't be able to continue it's policy illegal occupation and expansion if it weren't for literally billions of dollars of US monetary aid, military technology, and unilateral political support. And the situation wouldn't be what it is right now eigther. The Soviet Union is hardly relevant to this conflict. If it was, I would place the amount of attention on it justified by their involvment, negative or positive. |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
Don't confuse irrelevance with conveniece. The state of Israel wouldn't be able to continue it's policy illegal occupation and expansion if it weren't for literally billions of dollars of US monetary aid, military technology, and unilateral political support. |
I'm not sure I totally understand this argument and I'm not picking on you here shaolin, it's just a general inquiry since you brought it up.
This exact same argument can be said about Canada (or any colonial country now that I think of it) before Canada became a country, yet no one today (from the mass majority) cares to gripe; it simply becomes a footnote in the culture of what is the, 'History of Canada'.
Is it because Israel is the 'here and now' (even though Israel has been a sovereign nation for over 60 years) and that fact somehow legitimizes the indignant and those wanting Arab 'justice'.
At what point do they lay down the war banner and decide to try and work things out all things being what they are?
In any conflict, there are going to be compromises made, however on the issue of the Jews and Israel, there is always this perpetual cry of outrage that goes nowhere but to strife.
When will they realize it would be in their best interest to think of the future of their people than the past they can do nothing about?
Personally I find it perplexing... |
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| Lilith |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
The Soviet Union is hardly relevant to this conflict. If it was, I would place the amount of attention on it justified by their involvment, negative or positive. |
It's plenty relevant. A lot of why the middle east is a disfunctional mess in some places is because the US-Soviet meddling after WW2. That and Russia on it's own still sells about $4,600,000,000 of armaments around the world every year which just seem to end up an awful lot in the hands of people there. And thats contributing to the misery of people living there as much as the US arms sales. |
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