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are you offended by christmas trees???? (pg. 4)
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| Jem_hadar |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dennis Hahn
EXACTLY. This country was founded by Christians. Multiculturalism is a beautiful thing and part of what makes Canada special is the fact that we welcome others with open arms to contribute to society.
This country has never asked anyone from other religions or cultures to stop being who they are or stop practising their faiths/cultures. It is UNFAIR for people to come here and ask us to stop being who WE are. Does the thought of moving to Isreal and getting offended when people say Happy Hanukkah or moving to Egypt and getting mad when people say Happy Ramadan sound stupid? It should, because it is. And it shouldn't be any different here. We're notorious for protecting the rights of everyone else but our own. |
you said it dennis |
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| disko-kandi |
| quote: | Originally posted by Tordan
exactly! like where the were the christmas trees in bethlehem? i don't consider them to be a christian symbol at all. its just a fun thing to have during christmas time. |
surprise surpise! the Germans came up with the tradition of the Christmas tree. ;)
Monk and Church Reformer Martin Luther (1483-1546) was the one who initiated this tradition. According to the legend, Luther was returning home one wintry night when he saw the stars twinkling in the sky through the tree branches. Luther was amazed by the sight, and when he arrived home, he was eager to tell his family about it. To help them understand, he went to the woods and cut down a small fir tree. Luther brought it indoors and decorated it with candles, which represented the stars he had seen.
The tradition was brought over to England by German Prince Albert who married Queen Victoria in order to be reminded of his homeland customs. He had the first tree set up in Windsor Castle. From there this tradition was brought over to North America with the first English and German settlers in the 1800's.
Ben this is for you:
The Legend of the First Christmas Tree
The night of the Saviour's birth, all the living creatures, both flora and fauna, came to Bethlehem with gifts. The olive tree brought its fruit and the palm its dates. But the little fir tree had no gift and was so tired it couldn't resist when the big trees pushed it into the background and hid it from view. But then a nearby angel took pity and commanded a cluster of stars to come and rest on its delicate boughs. When the Baby Jesus beheld this lovely lighted tree, He smiled and blessed it, declaring henceforth that fir trees should always be filled with lights at Christmastime to please little children
An Ancient Symbol
Thousands of years ago, there were people who believed that evergreen trees were magical. Even in winter, when all the other trees and greenery were brown and bare, the evergreen stayed strong and green. People saw the evergreen as a symbol of life and as a sure sign that sunshine and spring would soon return. Candles, or the electric lights we use to decorate our trees today, are also an ancient symbol. They represent the light of spring triumphing over the darkness of winter.
In ancient Rome, people decorated their homes and their temples with greenery during a special December feast. It was a happy time. No battles could be fought, the schools were closed, and people everywhere joined in the carnival-like atmosphere and gave each other presents. |
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| zokissima |
| quote: | Originally posted by _EuG_
I am jewish and my family still puts up a tree just for the fun of it.. We say that its for new years tho |
And thats fine. Not many people know, but Christmas trees originally were put up to mark the begining of the New Year, and NOT as a mark of Christmas. Its just that everyone took it as a sign of CHristianity, and thus all the problems. THe tree is a universal symbol for the passing of the year, and everyone should be putting one up.
Seriously, only the stupid and ignorant get offended by freaking trees. |
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| FunkyCrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by zokissima
And thats fine. Not many people know, but Christmas trees originally were put up to mark the begining of the New Year, and NOT as a mark of Christmas. Its just that everyone took it as a sign of CHristianity, and thus all the problems. THe tree is a universal symbol for the passing of the year, and everyone should be putting one up.
Seriously, only the stupid and ignorant get offended by freaking trees. |
not just beginning, but in Russia and Ukraine too:) our Christmas is after the new year so the tree was originally put to celebrate the coming of the new year:) |
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| Irishaddict |
| ok so who voted they are offended? I'm pretty curious as to your reasoning whoever you are. |
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| zokissima |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
not just beginning, but in Russia and Ukraine too:) our Christmas is after the new year so the tree was originally put to celebrate the coming of the new year:) |
Yes! Everyone in the former Soviet states celebrated New Year. We did too, and its still the same.
Hehe, I celebrate CHristmas on January 7th, I'm assuming you're the same. Orthodox christians still follow the old calendar :) |
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| StereoPrincess |
| quote: | Originally posted by disko-kandi
Monk and Church Reformer Martin Luther (1483-1546) |
Lutherans. Silly silly Lutherans. |
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| dallastar |
just read this on the cover of the toronto star!
http://www.thestar.com/News/article/164314
a very lonley looking tree indeed!
| quote: | Premier rejects rules on Christmas trees
TIM MCKENNA / TORONTO STAR
The city’s most famous Christmas tree sits in a corridor in the courthouse at 311 Jarvis St. yesterday after being ordered moved there by Justice Marion Cohen. Email story
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Justice Cohen 'well respected'AG enters holiday fir fightJudge's tree removal 'unfortunate'No need for written policy on holiday icon, says McGuinty
December 22, 2006
Rob Ferguson
Robert Benzie
Tim Lai
Staff Reporters
Hoping to end the Christmas tree flap, Premier Dalton McGuinty says there's no need for a formal province-wide policy on holiday decor in courthouses.
Common sense should prevail, McGuinty said yesterday after Attorney General Michael Bryant had earlier suggested a written protocol might be needed.
An exasperated McGuinty said he still cannot understand why Ontario Court Justice Marion Cohen sparked a kerfuffle by ordering a Christmas tree removed from the lobby of the courthouse at 311 Jarvis St.
Yesterday, the tree was still tucked in an administrative corridor, well away from the public foyer.
"I don't think it's the kind of thing that we really want to get into by way of specific protocols and policies and laws and regulations," McGuinty said during an appearance in a Mississauga elementary school gym, decorated with a banner across the stage touting Christmas, Hanukkah, Eid ul-Adha and other seasonal celebrations.
Cohen, named to the bench on Aug. 9, 1993, by the New Democratic Party government of then premier Bob Rae, has been the courthouse administrator since last January.
Political insiders say the judge's relative inexperience as administrator may help explain the political headache she's created for the provincial government.
She ordered the 2.5-metre pine tree moved from the front foyer to interior corridor last week, deeming it offensive to those who do not celebrate Christmas.
On Wednesday, the tree reappeared in the lobby, but she ordered it returned to the other hallway.
Cohen, who presided over several bail hearings yesterday, declined comment again and evaded the media by exiting through a loading dock at the back of the courthouse and heading into a waiting car on George St.
"Why couldn't we be as open-minded as the children of this school?" the premier asked at Burnhamthorpe Public School. "It enriches us. We live in a privileged society, and with that privilege comes the responsibility to open up your hearts and minds."
The attorney general spoke to Cohen's boss, Ontario Court Chief Justice Brian Lennox, about the tree flap on Wednesday, but the yuletide fir remained in the back hallway.
"I seem to be developing an allergy to a certain fir tree on Jarvis St.," Bryant joked.
"That said, after Christmas has come and gone, Chief Justice Lennox and I agreed that we would have hopefully a very brief conversation about this in the new year, in the hopes that ... common sense and cooler heads will prevail at the end of the day."
The tree remained a central point of conversation at the courthouse yesterday as lawyers, clients and some staff sarcastically looked for the artificial plant and quipped about the controversy.
"Merry Chris–," said one woman before pausing. "Actually, because it's this courthouse, `Happy whatever-you-celebrate.'"
Richard Jordan, 57, was so angered by the judge's decision that he walked in from his daily stroll just to vent to the special constables at the front of the building.
"One single judge has the authority to obliterate Christmas?" Jordan said, before pointing out another Christmas symbol in the lobby.
"Why poinsettias? Why don't they pull the plants out of their pots and throw them out the door?"
The tree became the backdrop for photos for a group of Salvation Army performers who brought Christmas carols to youths at the York Detention Centre, which is connected to the courthouse.
Performers said it was well-decorated – the tree was done by another judge at the courthouse – standing about 5 metres from an administration counter festively decked out with a smaller tree, fake snowmen, Santa hats and Christmas cards.
Progressive Conservative Leader John Tory said it's time to "send a signal to people loud and clear that we're not going ... to be dictated to by people who are off on some sort of orgy of political correctness."
NDP Leader Howard Hampton expressed astonishment at how poorly the Liberals have handled the Christmas tree imbroglio. Hampton, a former attorney general, insisted that an immediate call by Bryant to Lennox would not have constituted meddling with the judiciary.
"No, it's saying: `I think there are really important issues to be dealt with in the judicial system. Do your judges really have to be worried about Christmas trees? Do they have time in their day to be worried about Christmas trees?' I think that would have sent the appropriate signal."
Bryant, who has remained light-hearted on the issue, said there have been few complaints filed about Christmas trees in courthouses anywhere in Ontario.
"One hopes, for the Jarvis St. courthouse, the attitude is the same as the other 160-plus courthouses across the province," he said, "which is that it is not only appropriate but joyous and right that we celebrate all of our holidays."
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| oldschool420 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Irishaddict
ok so who voted they are offended? I'm pretty curious as to your reasoning whoever you are. |
There would be no real good reason which is why they won't post. They know they'll just get flamed. |
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| spitty |
| quote: | Originally posted by Skipper
Private business can do what they wish - they are only alienating potential customers of a non-christian faith - but the government has a higher responsibility to be impartial on religious issues. |
i agree 100%
being this great multicultural country, i think we should be going above and beyond to celebrate other cultural and/or religious holidays by including other symbols or whatever. not taking away what we have, but adding more
also, for the christmas tree argument. my aunt and uncle grow christmas trees. they own a farm and thats all they grow. they have acres and acres of them, each field for a different year, so its not like we're raping natural forests for these christmas trees |
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| DarkAngel |
| quote: | Originally posted by Irishaddict
ok so who voted they are offended? I'm pretty curious as to your reasoning whoever you are. |
I did. :toothless Not really offended offended, I just think the holiday(s) that said trees represent suck. :) |
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| _EuG_ |
| the only thing i dont like about that tree, is that everytime i bump into it some of those decorations fall on the floor and i have to pull out the damn vacum cleaner |
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