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Depressed? Have Some Special K (pg. 3)
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| Silky Johnson |
| The only thing with K is that it creates dependency....do you guys want me to post the rest of the article? |
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| FunkyCrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
finally K is getting the recognition it deserves as a wonderful drug :D |
how drugs can be "wonderful" beats me:conf: |
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| oldschool420 |
| quote: | Originally posted by jennypie
do you guys want me to post the rest of the article? |
please |
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| Cosmic Fur |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
how drugs can be "wonderful" beats me:conf: |
That's because you don't do them. |
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| me@t k@tie |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cosmic Fur
That's because you don't do them. |
This is very true. |
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| MarkT |
Funkycrew...I was being a bit sarcastic, but K is indeed "wonderful" in that it's fun and *relatively* safe to use on a recreational basis (i.e. not every day).
K is, IMHO, one of the safest drugs out there (vs. other recreational drugs like coke, crystal, GHB) in that it's neither physically addictive nor easy to suffer an overdose. You'll go into a k-hole long before you cause yourself any damage, unless you have some kind of pre-existing condition. It's pretty "safe" in that regard, IMHO.
| quote: | Originally posted by jennypie
The only thing with K is that it creates dependency....do you guys want me to post the rest of the article? |
ok...but if you have to take your anti-depressant EVERY DAY, and *very* slowly wean yourself off of it...isn't that dependence FAR worse?
In any case, all joking aside about K, the study is very interesting in that k affects part of the brain that other anti-depressants do not...so new drugs will no doubt be developed that target the same areas. |
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| Silky Johnson |
Oops sorry...that WAS the whole article. But I also looked at this one, which is what I was thinking of...kinda long, but interesting:
Ketamine is a drug with potent psychedelic properties. It is thus sometimes used as a "dance drug" and an aid to exploration of the psyche, rather than for its licensed medical purpose as a dissociative anesthetic (Jansen 2001, 2000). Psychedelic drugs such as LSD and psilocybin are often too emotionally exhausting, demanding and potentially unpleasant to be taken frequently. Some people, however, find ketamine easier to take repeatedly as it can sometimes create a state of unemotional "high indifference" (Lilly 1978). With repeated use over a prolonged period, the effects of ketamine increasingly resemble aspects of cocaine, opium, cannabis and alcohol, and become considerably less psychedelic as a marked tolerance develops. Tolerance develops swiftly and can be very high, and the ability to remember the experience, a difficult task even under favorable conditions, is drastically curtailed. Many users will stop at this
point, due to the diminishing returns, but there are a minority who carry on with compulsive binges, driven to seek the more basic pleasures which may still be attainable: cocaine-like stimulation, opiate-like calming (there are many opposites amongst the effects), the cannabis-like imagery, alcohol-like intoxication, and potential relief from anxiety, depression, and mental craving (although ketamine can also trigger panic attacks). Fading of the psychedelic effects may lead to the use of higher doses in an attempt to again pass through the doors of dissociation, but these attempts rarely succeed. There is little evidence of physical dependence. This appears to be a need of the mind alone. The heaviest users describe a variety of symptoms over the days following a binge, but the exact cause of these is currently unclear. Some people are very twitchy and restless for several days. They have a poor attention span, impaired recall (especially for names), an elevated mood that can also be expressed as irritability, and increased vigilance. These symptoms may be due to lingering quantities of the metabolite norketamine, which can be present for several days, rather than a lack of ketamine as implied by the term "withdrawal syndrome." Users may notice few specific symptoms because they continue to take other drugs (e.g. cannabis, alcohol and benzodiazepines) that have a moderating effect. There is no evidence, as yet, of a physical syndrome resembling withdrawal from opiates or alcohol (Jansen 2001). Rats self-injecting large doses of ketamine for prolonged periods had epileptic-type brain waves for up to five days after stopping (Manohar, Maxwell & Winters 1972), but there are important differences between the effects of ketamine in rat and human brains (Jansen 2000). The rats did not have actual fits.
Several users have written accounts of their own dependence on ketamine. One of these was Marcia Moore, who froze to death in a forest at age 50 after months of daily use. Her former husband Howard Alltounian, M.D., (an anesthetist) was interviewed in 1998. He said that she was always promising to stop but continued with secret use, arranging orders from the supplier by quoting the numbers of Alltounian's medical license. Near the end of her book Journeys into the Bright World (Moore & Alltounian 1978), she described making the transition to taking ketamine with little preparation, and with ever-increasing frequency and tolerance.
John Lilly, medical doctor and neuroscientist, also wrote an account of his own ketamine dependence. His book The Scientist specifically states that one of the effects of ketamine is addiction to the psychological changes it produces (Lilly 1978:145). Lilly called this "the repeated use trap."
Popular articles about ketamine have also observed that the drug can induce psychological dependence. A reviewer in the drug magazine High Times commented: "I'd estimate that more than half of those who have tried and liked K have become involved in the trap of repeated use ... in most cases this syndrome in some way de-structures, disorganizes and even threatens their lives. . . ." (Sputz 1989).
We do not currently have any statistically valid data on how many people who try ketamine do like it, or how they would behave if given an unlimited supply. However, there is now sufficient anecdotal material to allow a conclusion that ketamine is far more likely to be associated with episodes of compulsive use than other psychedelic drugs (Jansen 2001).
Nevertheless, only one of the group of 23 users studied by Siegel (1978) considered herself to be dependent on ketamine, and dependency was not a significant feature in the study by Dalgarno and Shewan (1996). Some of those who lost control over their use have been relatively well known writers such as Marcia Moore, John Lilly, and D.M. Turner. Their books may have led to a perception in the psychedelic drug-using subculture that ketamine is even more addictive than is in fact the case. In contrast, addiction consultants who rarely read these sources have seen ketamine as a "nightmare" drug that couldn't possibly be addictive. Their views may have been formed by media articles such as "Young Drug Users Adopt Bad Trip Anaesthetic" (Hall & Cassidy 1992) and "Party Perils" (Mills 1996). This perspective can be problematic when a ketamine user comes to one of these professionals seeking help. D. M. Turner wrote the following about ketamine:
A major concern regarding safe use of K is its very high potential for psychological addiction. A fairly large percentage of those who try K will consume it non-stop until their supply is exhausted. I've seen this in friends I've known for many years who are regular psychedelic users and have never before had problems controlling their drug consumption. And I've seen the lives of several people who developed an addiction to K take downward turns.... After about two years of once-per-week K use I even found that I had developed an addiction.... Amongst those I know who use K, I've seen very few who can use it in a balanced manner if they have access to it ... the negative effects K was having on my life: a reduction in ambition; a reduction in healthy mortal fears, such as the fear of death; as well as a reluctance to confront fears or difficult tasks and situations directly. Frequent use of K can lure one as an escape since a blissful and fantastic state of fearless, disembodied consciousness is so easily available.... (Turner 1994).
D.M. Turner died in 1997 at age 34 when he apparently slipped in a bathtub in San Francisco while affected by ketamine.
A student at Yale University gave the following account of her boyfriend's ketamine dependence. He was later interviewed to confirm the account:
D is 21 ... His drug use started with alcohol, and he didn't try pot until he was around 16 years old. When he was 19 we started getting involved with the rave scene-Ecstasy, acid, speed, etc. . . . It was after a few months of this life-style that D was introduced to ketamine. I remember vividly the phone call: "I've found my drug." He described a K-hole much like many we have experienced since: vivid traveling through a world meticulously created in our minds, with seemingly impossible detail [she then describes him becoming a ketamine dealer and club owner, his transition to daily use, and the various problems which this caused.]
Our relationship was awful. He was constantly lying to me about using K, and his doing so caused me a great deal of pain. I tried to break off the relationship.... D refused to let me go, said he would stop using. The next three months leading up to where we are now have been a hellish blur. D started injecting to hide it from me, and was an emotional wreck.... D apparently injected and stumbled out into the hall, knocking something over. His parents and sister came out, and of course they were terrified. Even though they had seen him in a K-hole before, they had never seen him like that. His sister called 911 and an ambulance, as well as the police, came. They took D to the hospital, and of course he was fine by that time, but the police found a syringe in his room. . . . I thought he wasn't going to do K any more, that we could save our relationship. Well, the second he left my dorm, a friend of his picked him up and he did K (snorted). He went back to his apartment where I called to say hi, and to my horror, was on K. He denied it for at least ten minutes, but I knew, and eventually he admitted it.... I realized that everything was exactly the same, that he couldn't not do K. (Jansen 2001).
No abnormal personal or family history was revealed at interview that might explain this behavior. He first obtained the drug through a friend whose father was an animal doctor.
The next case involves doctors and medical students:
I tried 50mg in the shoulder... An amazing new world of colour and myth.... a blurred crusade, a quest for the colour and magic which were missing from my life. Looking back, I would say that it was a quest for the Holy Grail ... With some time off here and there, the next decade was measured out in those little bottles, with each relapse more serious than the last, and the compulsion to use over-riding everything else when it struck. On buses, in parks, toilets, cars, anywhere ... It took a few years before I tried it i.v. again after that first shot. The reason I gave myself for going into the mainline was that I didn't want to be up half the night, or I had something to do later, or I wanted to be down by the time my girlfriend came home ... eventually I got really into the needle thing. I would get pleasure watching the bleed rush into the syringe, a crimson orgasm in the injection Kama Sutra.... Eventually I stopped jabbing into muscles altogether. It just went straight into the vein for that incredible rush.... There's no rush like Super-K, the Last Supper of Champions.... I wish I never tried it i.v. though because I wouldn't have become so hung up on it without all the extra needle stuff. You're basically passing out as it comes on. I injured myself a few times ... I was collapsing and coming around with grazes and bruises that I couldn't explain. ... and I felt that I was going mad when I was on it. I started to hear white noise like radio static and wondered if it was schizophrenia . . . things got really bad towards the end. I would score some juice and then I just couldn't wait to do it. Couldn't even wait to get home.... In the final days I went through a phase of injecting into the little veins on the back of my hands.... (Jansen 2001).
The formal literature does contain some case reports of ketamine dependence. The users are usually doctors or persons working in related fields who have relatively easy access to the drug and injecting equipment (Hurt & Ritchie 1994; Jansen 1990; Kamaya & Krishna 1987; Ahmed & Petchkovsky 1980).
The World Health Organization (1992) definition of dependence does not absolutely require either physical withdrawal symptoms or daily use. To diagnose ketamine dependence, most of the following should be present: a strong compulsion to take ketamine with difficulties in controlling the onset, termination -and levels of use; tolerance; the use of ketamine has taken on a higher priority than other behaviors which once had greater value; a gradual neglect of alternative interests and sources of pleasure, increasing time and effort are spent obtaining, taking, recovering from, talking about and thinking about ketamine; there are arguments with partners about the level of use, and concerns are expressed by family and friends; despite obvious evidence of harm, such as problems with memory, word/name recall and attention span, harm to relationships with other people, work problems and loss of productivity, the person persists with their use; and if there is a dry period followed by further use, there will be a rapid return to using large amounts in an uncontrollable way-often exceeding the point where the person left off. The shifts from intranasal use to intramuscular injecting to intravenous injecting are linked with increasing dependence.
TOLERANCE
Ketamine is repeatedly self-injected by animals if freely available, and there is clear evidence of tolerance and dependence (Lu, France & Woods 1992; Moreton 1977; McCarthy & Harrigan 1976). Tolerance also appears rapidly in human anesthetic studies (MacLennan 1982; Cumming 1976). In one case, the requirement of a child had increased 250% by the 13th treatment (Byer & Gould 1981). Tolerance to ketamine can develop rapidly in all species, including after one large dose (Meliska & Trevort 1978; Cumming 1976).
In nonmedical use, frequent users often take ketamine in a pattern that resembles a cocaine binge. Psychedelic effects may still occur to some extent, but are increasingly difficult to remember. A heavy user may eventually have no memory of the experience at all. Increasing the dose merely prolongs the blackout period. Tolerance can be very high, and there are anecdotal indications that a break of several years does not appear to reverse this tolerance (Jansen 2001). Part of the explanation may be persistent brain changes. However, similar observations have been made with respect to alcoholics and heavy MDMA (methylene-dioxymethamphetamine) users, the latter being unable to regain the "love effect" (even with 250mg of MDMA by i.v. injection in one case; Jansen 1999). Even after years of abstinence, the psychological effects of a drug in many former addicts are far closer to the last time they used, rather than the first, although the physical body appears to have had time to recover, if it is able to do so. There appears, in these cases, to be no way for the entire journey of drug effects to begin again. This type of tolerance may involve a psychological defense, parts of the mind being determined not to visit that place again as part of the programmed drive towards self-preservation of the mind. The problem user may become disengaged from external life while mounting a sustained attack on the ego, which may not wish to undergo ketamine-induced ego death on a frequent basis. Unconscious self-defense mechanisms may eventually deprive dangerous behaviors, when used excessively, of their more attractive aspects. This is usually an incomplete process, as conflicting forces pull in different directions. New Age users may view the cocaine/opium/ cannabis/alcohol-like effects of ketamine that they are left with as disappointing after the spiritual experiences they had at first. At this point, some will thus stop using ketamine without difficulty. However, for other users these nonpsychedelic effects become the main reward for the activity, and use continues.
Panic attacks may then become more frequent for a period. Common amongst these are panic attacks where the users believe that they have gone mad and will have to spend the rest of their days in a psychiatric hospital. These attacks may also fade. These panic attacks arise via links to frightening material in the deep psyche (Jansen 2000). Grof (1988) has suggested that this material involves core memories of the birth process. Very long-term ketamine users can pass beyond this phase to increasingly superficial levels of experience.
There is also likely to be a physical basis for tolerance, including changes in receptors, cells, and an increase in disposal via the liver (Elliott et al. 1995; Morita et al. 1995; Maneta 1976). Parts of the dopamine system can show lasting change after prolonged use of stimulants. Like these stimulants, ketamine can cause a large rise in free dopamine in the brain's pleasure centres and elsewhere (Irifune. 1997, 1991; Koek 1989), and it is reasonable to suggest that the dopamine system would show adaptation to chronic ketamine use similar in many respects to the adaptive changes seen after chronic cocaine and amphetamine use.
PSYCHOLOGICAL FACTORS IN KETAMINE DEPENDENCE
Ketamine experiences can permit a major transcendence of the social consensus reality as awareness appears to travel out of the body, room, house, city, planet and universe. Ketamine dependence may sometimes result from a desire to turn this "holiday" into a lifestyle. Paradoxically, this form of escape may also reflect a desire for confinement, a return to the womb or Source. Some compulsive ketamine use could arise from unresolved birth trauma issues of the type outlined by Grof (1988), where there is a drive to continually repeat the birth process of confinement and escape in an attempt to achieve resolution. This search for both confinement and escape mirrors the ambivalence typically linked with many forms of drug dependence.
Some addictions have been said to arise from a lack of spiritual sustenance, and to be a maladaptive attempt to reconnect with spiritual aspects of being (James 1902). This is a popular perspective, and spirituality is an important component of 12-Step approaches to treating dependence. It is thus of interest to note that rather than being motivated by spiritual starvation, some people have been drawn towards dependence on ketamine through extensive involvement with spiritual issues. For example, there was no lack of preexisting involvement with spiritual realms and the higher self in Marcia Moore's case. She had written books with titles such as Astrology: The Divine Science and Reincarnation: Key to Immortality.
"The Priestess of the Goddess Ketamine," as she described herself, believed that ketamine put her in touch with her higher self, and yet she was dependent on the drug when she died. In contrast, ketamine psychedelic therapy has been used to treat over 1,000 persons with alcohol dependence, and a growing number of heroin addicts, by sometimes involving the higher self during use to prevent death from addiction (Krupitsky & Grinenko 1997). This contradiction suggests that balance is an important issue. Ketamine infusions have also been used to reduce compulsiveness in eating disorders at the University of Cambridge (Mills et al. 1998).
An extension of the concept of drug dependence as a spiritual search is the observation that some compulsive ketamine use is driven by an unconscious search for suppressed or hidden parts of the self. The death of "Ariel" (Jansen 2001), a woman of a similar age to Marcia Moore, is an example of this. Before taking ketamine, she had been to India with her husband and they had both embarked on a spiritual path that involved physical celibacy within the marriage. They pursued this path for almost three years, before deciding to divorce. Ariel's seven-month, daily use of ketamine began shortly afterwards, accompanied by further weight loss from an already slight frame. She came to believe that she had an Angel lover called Gabriel "on the other side." Gabriel could be interpreted as an expression of that part of the psyche that Jungian analysts have called the "inner masculine" or animus. Ariel's actions suggest a person who is having her primary relationship with a projected part of herself rather than a real-life other person.
Rather than being hidden, denied, suppressed or projected, parts of the mind can also compete actively with other parts of the psyche resulting in partial disintegration of the self. The necessary integration required for healing can first require some dissolution of boundaries, and the drive to dissolve such boundaries may involve drugs, although this work can also be done using conventional therapies. Themes of personality integration and disintegration are a common part of ketamine experiences.
Narcissism can be described as a condition where the ego is mistakenly identified as the whole of the self, and where the ego may also be strongly identified with parts of the external world. Other people and situations are rarely seen as they actually are, but only in terms of their relationship to the person's ego. The intravenous use of any drug is more likely to be followed by a degree of needle fetishism in such a person. In penetrating their body space and injecting a source of stimulation or pleasure, they are in some ways making love to themselves. Beneath the apparent self-love may lie a deeper well of self-hatred. Injection is also an attack on the self, and may sometimes be seen as a relatively sophisticated form of deliberate selfharm. Heavy users can become involved in a deep love-and-hate affair with parts of themselves, and may project these parts onto people and things around them.
AVAILABILITY
Users are more likely to become dependent if they have easier access to the drug, such as working in the anaesthetic, pediatric, obstetric, surgical and emergency areas in hospitals; veterinary workers; laboratory workers; club promoters; those who buy ketamine in India or Mexico; drug dealers; and DJs. The associates, partners and friends of these people may also be at risk. Ketamine became far more profitable to deal in when it was made into a controlled drug in the United States, and increased dealer involvement in supplying ketamine has changed the profile of groups at risk away from the "spiritual seekers" to one more typical of the general club and party goer.
GENETIC FACTORS
Another risk factor for problem ketamine use is a family history of dependence, especially on alcohol. This is due to both learning from parental models (about the use of substances to control difficult feelings and self-- medicate disorders), and shared genes. There are likely to be genetic, neurochemical, and personality differences between those who are inclined to try ketamine, those who like it, those who hate it, and those who are little affected by it.
Persons who have a strong drive to take ketamine repeatedly may have inherited underfunctioning of the dopamine pleasure system. This may increase the likelihood of depression, anxiety, a fear of immobility and commitment, a sense of dissatisfaction that is rarely appeased, and create a drive towards seeking a higher level of novelty and stimulation.
COMMON GROUND WITH OTHER DRUGS
The common ground between ketamine and other drugs captured in a variety of popular terms for the substance:
"L.A. coke": At psychedelic (subanaesthetic) ketamine doses, the heart and breathing rates usually rise (Tweed, Minick & Mymin 1972). In animal models, the same dose level of ketamine after multiple injections is increasingly likely to have a stimulant effect, and is less likely to produce a trance (Uchihashi 1993). Low doses cause dopamine to be released into the brain's pleasure centres, and changes in the dopamine system occur over time (Irifune 1991; Koek 1989). Noradrenalin is also involved (Taube 1975; Zsigmond & Kelsch 1974). The post-trance stimulant effects include talkativeness, an inflated sense of confidence, and a reduced need for sleep. Experiences involving the appearance of high speed transit through tunnels or being strapped into a rocket ship accelerating away from the launch pad add to the impression that ketamine can be a potent stimulant.
The altered pleasure system may develop a strong drive to stimulate itself with ever larger releases of dopamine, requiring larger and more frequent doses of drugs or other pleasure-producing behaviors. In those with a tolerance, low doses of ketamine can sometimes trigger a desire for pleasure in all its forms. With cocaine, there can be a dramatic crash when using stops, with anxiety, agitation, and depression, followed by prolonged sleep. The events which occur when a ketamine binge stops are different because of the high levels of norketamine, which can take some time to subside and provide a gently deflating cushion. It is common to feel elevated in mood. This can sometimes express itself as irritability, but feeling low is not common, and is more likely when there was a preexisting depression and the main thoughts during the experience and its aftermath were depressing. If a person feels high after a binge, a cocaine-like swing into depression is rare. Users who 'crash' are often party-goers who combine ketamine with methamphetamine and cocaine (the latter combination is known as "CK"). Some users have observed that ketamine dramatically reduces the need for sleep without a need to make up for the deficit later. This is different from cocaine. Ketamine-- induced electrical activity in the brain can be similar to phases of normal sleep, and some of ketamine experiences may meet the same needs as normal dreams (Jansen 2001).
After a period of recovery from a binge, craving can return. There is a high relapse rate after dry spells of less than six months. The sight of a syringe, or music linked with taking ketamine, or meeting up with other users may be sufficient to trigger craving. A new cycle of use may begin, or the person may remain ketamine-- free and enter the long-term recovery state (about a year) during which urges to use slowly fade. The cues that once triggered craving lose their power to do so if they are resisted, and are extinguished.
"Psychedelic heroin": Ketamine has both direct and indirect effects on opioid receptors (Hirota et al. 1999; Winters 1988; Smith 1980). Despite giving rise to a rapid tolerance for itself, ketamine can block the development of tolerance and physical addiction to many other drugs, including heroin, alcohol, barbiturates and benzodiazepines (diazepam, temazepam etc.) (Khanna 1998; Khanna, Chau & Shah 1997a,b). This is partially achieved via the blockade of learning at NMDA receptors. The physical brain then fails to fully remember that it has met heroin and other drugs before. Ketamine can also suppress withdrawal symptoms in heroin addicts (Shimoyama 1996). Oral ketamine given with morphine prevents morphine tolerance, so this combination is sometimes used by chronic pain clinics (Herman, Vocci & Bridge 1995). This prevention of learning does not happen for drugs which act at kappa opioid receptors (Elliott 1995), which is interesting as it has been suggested that these receptors play a significant role in the psychedelic effects of ketamine (Pfeiffer et al. 1986). Thus tolerance at kappa receptors could contribute to the loss of psychedelic effects (morphine acts primarily at mu receptors).
"Ketamine crew super brew" (or "psychedelic alcohol"): Like ketamine, alcohol is also an indirect NMDA receptor blocker (Yang 1996) and it is not surprising that ketamine has many alcohol-like effects (Krystal 1998). The loss of coordination that occurs with both drugs has a similar neurochemical basis. There is increasing evidence implicating NMDA receptors in some aspects of alcohol dependence, and it is thus likely that the action of ketamine at these sites contributes to the neurochemistry of ketamine dependence, even if no physical withdrawal symptoms have been noted as yet.
"Psychedelic cannabis": Ketamine can influence cannabis receptors indirectly (this can be extrapolated, for example, from Stella, Schweitzer & Pomelli 1997 and Richardson, Aanonsen & Hargreaves 1998). Some ketamine effects are similar to those of cannabis. Most stimulants suppress hunger, but ketamine can have the opposite effect in some veteran users, stimulating appetite. As with cannabis, it is not so much a specific desire to eat which is felt as a drive towards sensual pleasure of all kinds: food, sex, music, other drugs including alcohol, etc.
SOURCE: Journal of Psychoactive Drugs. San Francisco: Apr-Jun 2001.Vol.33, Iss. 2; pg. 151, 8 pgs |
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| FunkyCrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cosmic Fur
That's because you don't do them. |
and i'm very proud of that, and please enlighten me how can they be "wonderful" cos i'm extremely skeptical of that |
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| me@t k@tie |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
and i'm very proud of that, and please enlighten me how can they be "wonderful" cos i'm extremely skeptical of that |
Drugs enhance things.
| quote: | | They have the short-term effect of making one feel lively, talkative, confident and euphoric. They are attractive to club and party-goers because they enhance sensory experience and postpone the need for sleep. |
source: University of Cambridge |
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| MarkT |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
and i'm very proud of that, and please enlighten me how can they be "wonderful" cos i'm extremely skeptical of that |
ever get drunk? smoke pot? do e?
if so...then you can understand why people would do k...except that k is a *far* more intense high...with virutally zero come down, zero hangover, zero negative side effects (with moderate use).
the issue is it's a controlled substance, isn't widely used like alcohol, pot and e, and is snorted (increasing the societal taboo of using it).
if people would logically examine drug and alcohol use...they'd see that blowing through a vial of k in a night is far less harmful than getting *wasted* on booze.
but it's impossible to convince some people of that, because they can't look past what society deems to be "ok".
meh. |
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| FunkyCrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by me@t k@tie
Drugs enhance things. |
right, so have you lost ability to enjoy things naturally?
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
ever get drunk? smoke pot? do e? |
last time I got drunk was my 22nd birthday a year ago, and I don't enjoy that all so neither of this applies to me, and no to pot and e :)
oh and it has nothing to do with how society sees things, there are millions of ppl who have chronic alcohol problems and they could care less about what societies say
what it boils down for me personally - i have no interest in this fake imaginary enhancements, I enjoy life and partying in my most natural state, sober. |
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