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Deniers of 9/11 and of the Holocaust are two of a kind?
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| LazFX |
What say you??
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Deniers of 9/11 and of the Holocaust are two of a kind. It is a given that television networks put profits above pride, but ABC has reached a new low in its sponsorship of Rosie O'Donnell. The daytime talk show host recently joined the world of "truthers" --people who believe that 9/11 was an attack staged by this country's own government.
On ABC's popular The View, O'Donnell lent her expert opinion that it is impossible for the World Trade Center's building 7 "to fall the way it fell without explosives being involved." To say otherwise, she added, "is beyond ignorant." (When she isn't offering instruction on the fine points of structural engineering, O'Donnell entertains by hanging upside-down from a rope.)
If this all sounds like the howling of a rabid dog, O'Donnell isn't alone in the kennel. A recent poll from the Scripps Research Center found that more than a third of Americans believe that 9/11 was an "inside job." Those who actively promote the idea, though, are more than mere laughable loons. They bear resemblance to another particularly virulent conspiracy nut -- the Holocaust denier.
It may be coincidence that O'Donnell's 9/11 denial has manifested itself in such close proximity to Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's "Holocaust conference" of last December, but she sounds a lot like many of its participants.
Both profess interest in the pursuit of truth.
Mahammad Ali Ramini, advisor to Ahmadinejad, announced that he would chair a committee to find "the truth on the genocide of Jews."
O'Donnell says that she is merely "trying, as always, for a rigorous truth."
And both profess total objectivity in that pursuit.
Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki made an offer to British Prime Minister Tony Blair to send "independent investigators" to visit former Nazi death camps -- people "who are not sympathetic" to the Nazis nor "to the Zionist regime."
"I have begun doing exactly what this country, at its best, allows for me to do," wrote O'Donnell on her blog. "Inquire. Investigate."
Yet for both, "truth" precedes "investigation."
The Holocaust, Ahmadinejad said at the start of the "conference," is a "myth."
The terrorist attack of 9/11, said O'Donnell at the mere outset of her "inquiry," "is impossible."
Both make shameless use of fabricated math and science.
"The number of victims at the Auschwitz concentration camp," said Australian Holocaust denier Frederick Toben, "could be about 2,007. The railroad to the camp did not have enough capacity to transfer large numbers of Jews."
"I do believe that it's the first time in history that fire has ever melted steel," said O'Donnell. "It is physically impossible."
And both cite "studies" or "experts" without actually citing any studies or experts.
"All the studies and research carried out so far have proven that there is no reason to believe that the Holocaust ever occurred," said former Iranian interior minister and Hezbollah cofounder Ali Akbar Mohtashamipour.
"Look at the films, get a physics expert in here from Yale, from Harvard, pick the school," said O'Donnell.
The worlds of deniers O'Donnell and Ahmadinejad intersected more overtly when the former defended the latter's hostage taking of 15 British sailors and Royal Marines who, O'Donnell ruled by fiat, "went into Iranian waters and they were seized by the Iranians." O'Donnell added her expression of sympathy for mass murderers the world over: "Don't fear the terrorists. They're mothers and fathers."
Only one with the most sinister sentiments toward the country that gave her so much for so little could express such warm regard for its most determined enemies. And therein lies the real similarity between Holocaust deniers and 9/11 deniers. The "theories" of both, which could otherwise only be explained as serious psychopathology, are but expressions of venom and bile. The former hate Jews (and, often, the United States). The latter hate the United States (and, often, Jews).
White House press secretary Tony Snow's description of Ahmadinejad's conference as "a platform of hatred," then, applies as well to the current incarnation of The View.
Which leads to this question: If ratings were strong, would ABC allow, say, David Duke to host a show on which he preached his doubts about the Holocaust and his fondness for Nazis? Stay tuned and the answer will soon be revealed -- by whether and how fast the network pulls the plug on O'Donnell.
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| mcleod |
| I don't see the relation between the two, and to suggest that they are somehow related is ridiculous. This is absolute propaganda and its purpose is to have people turn against conspiracy theorists and label them terrorist sympathizers (or racists). That's what they are: conspiracy theorists (so called truth seekers) not Jew, or American haters. Some of them may dislike the American government and Jews, but to generalize the issue is ignorant. |
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| XaNaX |
It is a stretch to say they are one in the same. However it is true that both groups are pulling the same stunts of using junk science and so called "expert" opinions (where really what you have is an opinion with no expert to back it up) and are basically claiming their propaganda to be true until refuted by legitimate sources.
Typically, the statements they make fly in the face of common sense and can really only be believed by those as stupid or ignorant as they are or those who have an agenda. Statements like this are a classic example:
| quote: | "The number of victims at the Auschwitz concentration camp," said Australian Holocaust denier Frederick Toben, "could be about 2,007. The railroad to the camp did not have enough capacity to transfer large numbers of Jews."
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I don't know about you, but I see at least two railroad tracks leading up to the main gate. The Nazis would pack 80-120 Jews in a cattle car. A train would have dozens of these cars attached. Such a ridiculous argument, given common sense shows that one trainload would contain well over 2000 people, the Nazis were likely sending in multiple trainloads daily, and that Birkenau was capable of killing 20,000 people in a single day.
The 9/11 deniers are not as bad as this so far, but it could easily get that way with idiots as big as Rosie working as a mouthpiece for their propaganda. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| haha. rosie o'donnell. as if the 9/11 "truth" movement wasn't embarrassing enough! but yes, i can see the parallel between the two groups, they are both very very selective upon which "facts" they will believe and which they will ignore. |
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| Marc Summers |
| I think we should let the babies have their bottles. Just let them rant, it's funny. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Marc Summers
I think we should let the babies have their bottles. Just let them rant, it's funny. |
do you really think its funny though? if someone was arguing the sky was green, and would (arbitrarily) dismiss all the evidence to the contrary, wouldnt that annoy you just a tad? it annoys the hell outta me ;) |
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| Marc Summers |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
do you really think its funny though? if someone was arguing the sky was green, and would (arbitrarily) dismiss all the evidence to the contrary, wouldnt that annoy you just a tad? it annoys the hell outta me ;) |
It does annoy me, but I just remember that this theory was created by the internet. I think the Kennedy assassination theory holds more water because it gained popularity through good old fashioned bullting, and not internet.
The internet is shady business. You can pass anything as fact, and the 9/11 theorists take advantage of it. Once again, it does annoy to some extent, but, until I see an influential and respectable person believe in the theory, I'm just going to laugh it off. |
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| culorut |
| quote: | | I don't see the relation between the two, and to suggest that they are somehow related is ridiculous. This is absolute propaganda and its purpose is to have people turn against conspiracy theorists and label them terrorist sympathizers (or racists). That's what they are: conspiracy theorists (so called truth seekers) not Jew, or American haters. Some of them may dislike the American government and Jews, but to generalize the issue is ignorant. |
Perfectly put.
This was just another weak attempt to slander theorists which flopped a while back.
Some people around here need to speed up to the present, propaganda and old ing news. |
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| DJ Shibby |
I love how the article tries to underhandedly decry "truth" as some sort of sin.
Anyway, she's just saying what we all think. If the government didn't directly cause 9/11, then it sure as hell indirectly caused it. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by culorut
Perfectly put.
This was just another weak attempt to slander theorists which flopped a while back.
Some people around here need to speed up to the present, propaganda and old ing news. |
the article isnt arguing that conspiracy theorists = holocaust deniers. its saying that the same types of "junk science" are utilised to create doubt in the generally accepted facts. |
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| culorut |
No the article is trying to place the two separate entities under the same scope and tie them together using terms like "junk science". Funny when you think of it because they label it as junk science but do not argue any actual facts, hypocrites.
These articles are one of many hit pieces out there, they attempt to do harm by trying to relate two completely opposite groups together. Weak attempts at generalizing different bodies do not cut it in this day and age. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
well, to be fair man, such tactics are really not needed given the HUGE amount of discrediting analysis now available. im not sure ive seen a single conspiracy theory that hasn't been shot down in flames by relevant experts.
i think youre giving the 911 movement far too much credit. |
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