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*Updated* Shooting in Virginia school (pg. 12)
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| ResonantDrag |
| quote: | Originally posted by XaNaX
If he had no gun he could have killed as many or more people by hopping in a truck and driving around a busy campus full of pedestrians running people down. Maybe we better ban cars too while we are at it. |
well, that happened in chapel hill last year. there wasn't an executive order to lower the flags then. |
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| MisterOpus1 |
XaNax, please be warned, I'm not in a particularly cheery mood.
So here we go:
| quote: | Originally posted by XaNaX
I had to lol at finding that Iraq and George Bush ended up in this thread. Can you terrorist lovers just create a 'George W. Bush is the devil and responsible for everything bad in the world' thread and go in there and circle jerk yourselves and quit polluting the other threads with that drivel? |
Can you jump out of your kindergarden narrow mindframe for one moment and try to comprehend that someone such as myself is attempting to put this issue on a bigger scale other than "OH MY GOD, RUN FOR THE HILLS!!! WE HAVE MADMEN EVERYWHERE!!!! SHOOT 'EM DOWN WITH YOUR OWN GUNS!!!! BLOW 'EM UP!!!! GET OUR YOUR PERSONALLY-OWNED BAZOOKAS!!!
Or on the flip-side:
"OH MY GOD!!! A GUN!!!! SOMEONE'S GOTTA PROTECT ME FROM ALL THE GUNS!!!! IT COULD BE ME THAT'S GONNA GET SHOT BY SOME RANDOM MADMAN!!!!! PROTECT ME!!!! BAN ALL GUNS AND LET'S ING USE SLINGSHOTS FROM HERE ON!!!!! THAT WILL SAVE US ALL!!!!!"
You see, if you bothered to actually read what was written rather than skim any commentary that you seemingly don't agree with, you may have noticed that I told Shakka this:
| quote: | My point was not to be tangential to the topic at hand. Rather, I was trying to point out that I don't think gun control laws is the stronger issue to bring up that points towards mass murders right now, and I used the Iraq War and the daily mass killings taking place there for a larger context.
http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...66&pagenumber=9 |
Which if you find that comment invalid, by all means point that out rather than spew off another useless "LIBRULS HATE BUSH" drivel that completely and deliberately undermines the context that I was referring to here.
And if you've got a point to make in regards to anyone who opposes Bush's asinine Iraq policy as being a "terrorist-lover", which just so happens to BE THE ING MAJORITY AMERICAN PUBLIC, THE MAJORITY OF THE ING WORLD, and oh yeah, the Democrats and the Bush-appointed Iraq Study Group, then I suggest you attempt to make that point on another thread elsewhere as opposed to being coy and cute by laying that down as if no one would respond to it.
You want to call me out on who's the real ing terrorist lovers, then open up another thread and we will have a joyful discussion on it. Otherwise, keep your snide comments away from the discussion at hand.
| quote: | | I've said it once and I'll say it again, the liberal knee-jerk reaction to something like this is always 'we have to have more gun control, lets pass some laws'. |
You see, I could just as easily talk about YOUR Bush-lovin chickenhawk circle-jerkers talking about how big and tough they woulda/coulda/shoulda been in that situation, such as John Derbyshire of the National Review:
| quote: | As NRO's designated chickenhawk, let me be the one to ask: Where was the spirit of self-defense here? Setting aside the ludicrous campus ban on licensed conceals, why didn't anyone rush the guy? It's not like this was Rambo, hosing the place down with automatic weapons. He had two handguns for goodness' sake—one of them reportedly a .22.
At the very least, count the shots and jump him reloading or changing hands. Better yet, just jump him. Handguns aren't very accurate, even at close range. I shoot mine all the time at the range, and I still can't hit squat. I doubt this guy was any better than I am. And even if hit, a .22 needs to find something important to do real damage—your chances aren't bad.
Yes, yes, I know it's easy to say these things: but didn't the heroes of Flight 93 teach us anything? As the cliche goes—and like most cliches. It's true—none of us knows what he'd do in a dire situation like that. I hope, however, that if I thought I was going to die anyway, I'd at least take a run at the guy.
http://time-blog.com/swampland/2007...because_th.html |
You see, everyone but him are a bunch of worthless cowards for not attacking the killer. Ain't that grand?
Or how about Nathan Blake at Human Events Online?:
| quote: | Something is clearly wrong with the men in our culture. Among the first rules of manliness are fighting bad guys and protecting others: in a word, courage. And not a one of the healthy young fellows in the classrooms seems to have done that. ...
Like Derb, I don’t know if I would live up to this myself, but I know that I should be heartily ashamed of myself if I didn’t. Am I noble, courageous and self-sacrificing? I don’t know; but I should hope to be so when necessary.
http://www.humanevents.com/rightang...re_were_the_men |
But who wants to be called out for being a coward in comparison to these incredibly courageous keyboard fighters?
The funny thing is, I tend to agree with your point about this event needing to be held in context and not create a knee-jerk reaction to the cries of gun-control. The problem with you (among many) is, that's exactly the point that I laid out with my example of what is occurring in Iraq with these types of deaths occurring daily, even hourly:
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_5694330?source=rss
These examples of madmen in our country are the rare exception and not the rule. I do believe in more gun control personally, but it's NOT because of this event. If you actually read what I said in full context, you might have actually picked up on that.
| quote: | | The problem with this is that you are assuming that criminals follow laws, which by definition, they do not. And when you pass a law and make something illegal, it makes it impossible to get right? How long have drugs been illegal in this country and how hard is it for you to get them? All it does is create a black market for the item among criminals. People who want to get a gun for something will still have no trouble getting them. |
Again I agree, which is just peachy, until you had to throw in another dip snipe:
| quote: | | I understand that is is hard for liberals to think rationally, but please try hard here. Taking guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens will not stop crimes. |
And you see, the argument easily flips both ways. For example:
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions...e_with_gun.html
Our dear Glenn tends to believe as do most Wingnuts that if everyone had a warm gun, not only would it bring Happiness, it would bring Safety. He pulls an incident out from Appalachian Law School and uses that instance as a basis for his argument to create a sweeping generalization of safety if everyone owned a ing .45. Now we could easily dismiss all the other problems that occur with guns, namely the number of shooting accidents in the home and so forth that seems to put the Wild West sentiment on hold, but to me both extemes of this argument with guns are just that: extreme. I've seen figures that support and refute gun control and gun carry to live long day, and I still walk away with the same feeling as I had before: I'm not a fan of guns, but I'll still support the 2nd Amendment and someone's right to bear arms. I'd prefer there not being a law for concealed carry because the arguments for or against "safety" and "peaceful" society with such laws are unconvincing and tend not to wash out extraneous variables, but on the flip side the same can be said about the counter-studies on gun control.
So I'm not convinced either way, and until I am convinced I'm not going to support nor refute gun carry or gun control. But what I will do is continue to hold this event in larger context to the world around us, INCLUDING events occurring in Iraq. If you find that disagreeable, honestly tough . If I tend to think of the deaths there or perhaps elsewhere like Darfur that engulfs this tragedy that occurred in our country today, and if you find that disagreeable, I really could give two s. I will continue regardless. But don't think I won't call you out on your bull remarks of "terrorist-lovers" (which arguably is exactly what you Wingers are, including a few traitors in our own Administration). Again I'll leave it up to you to start another thread if you wish to discuss that comment further. |
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| Dopey |
| quote: | Originally posted by XaNaX
The problem with this is that you are assuming that criminals follow laws, which by definition, they do not. |
The problem with this is that Cho DID FOLLOW THE LAW! (in terms of purchasing the gun) He went to a gun store, got a background check, bought a LEGAL weapon, and killed 33 people. |
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| pmoisse |
| quote: | Originally posted by XaNaX
World Population Statistics
Rank Country Population
1. China 1,313,973,713
2. India 1,095,351,995
3. United States 298,444,215
Two factors:
1. Population
2. The media
The US has the third largest population in the world. More people = more wackjobs.
Also, the amount of news media in the US enormous, and there is no government control. Anything that happens in any little town is all of the sudden broadcast all over the national news.
In China obviously the government has some control over what gets out and what doesn't but the real difference is that in China and India every village of 1000 people doesn't have three local news channels plus two or three newspapers ready to broadcast anything that happens up to their national affiliate like we have here in the US. |
Very true, but what are their crime rates like in terms of gun related murders (which is the point of the discussion)?
I wonder if they even compare on a per capita basis to the US numbers? More? Less?
Getting good numbers out of China probably won't happen, and any numbers would need to be taken with an obvious grain of salt. India might keep better numbers though... |
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| Shakka |
blah blah blah...
Did anybody catch Sanjaya last night? Is Anna Nicole still dead? |
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| XaNaX |
| quote: | Originally posted by MisterOpus1
But what I will do is continue to hold this event in larger context to the world around us, INCLUDING events occurring in Iraq. |
I'm not sure how these events are connected to those in Iraq but if you want to try and make that point for me I'll listen.
And for once, I guess I agree with you. The comments posted by those two people about 'rushing' a gunman or whatever are complete and utter bull Monday morning quarterbacking. To suggest that someone under gunfire from an unknown attacker should have 'counted gunshots' and then rushed him is ing ignorant. I'd like to ask that genius how I'm going to count shots when I don't know what kind of gun he has and how many bullets the magazine holds. And I'd like that other tool to make his comment about it not being a machine gun or whatever while I'm shooting a 9mm at him. I don't know the political affiliation of those two guys but they are idiots.
As for my 'liberal' comments, you may not like them but they are founded. Liberals love to use events like this to inact worthless gun control regulations in this country. |
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| XaNaX |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dopey
The problem with this is that Cho DID FOLLOW THE LAW! (in terms of purchasing the gun) He went to a gun store, got a background check, bought a LEGAL weapon, and killed 33 people. |
So what, should we ban all the guns then?
Ok, I'll go down to the car dealer, legally buy me a big ass Hummer H2 and drive it down a city sidewalk running over everyone in my way.
The point is that nutjobs will find a way to kill people. Getting rid of guns will not stop anything. |
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| HardTranceProd |
| quote: | Originally posted by XaNaX
So what, should we ban all the guns then?
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Well let me ask you this, can you let me drink and drive?
No? why not?
Am I breaking a law if my alcohol level is above the limit, even though I personally know how to handle my alcohol? Regardless of how I conduct myself, it's still a crime in your "free" country to drive with an ABC greater than whatever?
And why is it a crime to possess drugs for personal use?
Shouldn't we apply your same reasoning to drugs, also?
Then how come the "individual-knows-best" rule doesn't apply to drugs in this very free country? |
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| hadi burpee |
| quote: | Originally posted by HardTranceProd
Well let me ask you this, can you let me drink and drive?
No? why not?
Am I breaking a law if my alcohol level is above the limit, even though I personally know how to handle my alcohol? Regardless of how I conduct myself, it's still a crime in your "free" country to drive with an ABC greater than whatever?
And why is it a crime to possess drugs for personal use?
Shouldn't we apply your same reasoning to drugs, also?
Then how come the "individual-knows-best" rule doesn't apply to drugs in this very free country? |
why dont you read the rest of his post |
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by HardTranceProd
Well let me ask you this, can you let me drink and drive?
No? why not?
Am I breaking a law if my alcohol level is above the limit, even though I personally know how to handle my alcohol? Regardless of how I conduct myself, it's still a crime in your "free" country to drive with an ABC greater than whatever?
And why is it a crime to possess drugs for personal use?
Shouldn't we apply your same reasoning to drugs, also?
Then how come the "individual-knows-best" rule doesn't apply to drugs in this very free country? |
It's only a crime if you get caught.;) |
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| Dopey |
| quote: | Originally posted by XaNaX
So what, should we ban all the guns then?
Ok, I'll go down to the car dealer, legally buy me a big ass Hummer H2 and drive it down a city sidewalk running over everyone in my way.
The point is that nutjobs will find a way to kill people. Getting rid of guns will not stop anything. |
It might have stopped those 33 people dying. |
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dopey
It might have stopped those 33 people dying. |
And it might not've. |
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