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Intifada 2002 (pg. 5)
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| trancaholic |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
The UN does NOT call for 100%. Indeed if it were to call for 100% resolution 242 would say ALL the TERRITORIES. INSTEAD, the UN DOES call for a negotiation between both sides to resolve the conflict.
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Whether or not the U.N. has given up on Israel to follow resolution 242 completely or not, does not invalidate the resolution and the U.N. still called for 100% compliance.
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
Second of all, have you heard of a thing called COMPROMISE?
How is a 100% of everything you want compromise exactly? You understand you have two parties here, they can not get 100% of what they want (this would result in a breakdown of negotiations, and a call for war.. hmm imagine that).
If you want a successful negotiation, and most of the time a good negotiation would grant 50% of what one party wants, and 50% of what the other party wants, you have to compromise.
If Israel would give the Palestinians 80% of all the land, no Jerusalem, and no right of return, this would be comparable to a 50-50 compromise.
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Possibly. I'm not making a stance on what would be a fair peace aggreement - I'm way to ill-informed to make any such thing. My statement was intended to counter an exaggeration in another post, not to be a comment on what's fair and what's not fair.
Opinion mode on
Personally, I fail to see why human lives can be sacrificed in order to control some square kilometers of land and some old buildings. Why is this? If he cared in any way, wouldn't Jave/Allah (who's almighty) simply slay all those he didn't want to live in his city?
Opinion mode off |
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| tranzformer |
| quote: | Originally posted by cweb
one thing i wanted to say (it hasnt really something to do with the actual discussion).
The palistenenan folk is basically alone, no support. Its not like every arab country around israel like the palis, on the contrary. they all hate israel but they alkso do not like the palis. the actual politics has to consider that in my opinion because groups OUTSIDE of Israel had put oil in this fire!!!! |
Thats an ignorant comment. Maybe you should keep up with current events and watch the news. All of the surrounding Arab countries (Lebannon, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Saudi Arabia,...etc even European countries like France, England, Norway ....) have been having protests about the military offensive that the Israelis have been taking. They all shout for the total destruction of Israel and the the rise of the Palistinian nation. So give me the name of ONE Arab nation that suports Israel and what they are doing. You can't now can you?? |
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| godsfather |
| im not taking any side now cause u have to be here to understand.... anyway one issue must be understood by u all 2 monthes ago before THIS mess started when a palestinian walked inside jerusalem or tel-aviv its a normal thing they are part of us every third person is arab... and when 1 israeli even dared going inside jenin lets say he wouldent survive more than 5 mins... and even today they are among us here in jerusalem and tel-aviv and they are studying in universitys near me... anyway this shows whos hostile and about that u cant bull cause this is a fact... and one more thing when everyone say we are killing children.... we are not stupid we have no interest in killing children its not stopping terror and defenately not helping our world image a german research proved that the boy who got killed in his father arms was killed by palestinian fire.. u need to understand they send theyre 16 years old child to suicide and promice them heaven they will kill theyre own children... in afghanistan a ggirl who shows her face is being leenched just compare they are the same people arafat was a terrorist before just like osama bin laden..... |
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| tranzformer |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by trancaholic
That statement has absolutely no value in this discussion. First of all it's a red herring and secondly you supply no facts whatsoever to back up your postulates.
Eugene was right. You Europeans have dug yourselves such hole that you don't know how to get out of it now do you? You guys think you have an open mind, but your so shut up in that little stuffy book that your about to suffocate yourself. U guys are so dependent upon oil from the Arabs that at the sound of the Israelis "hurting" your "friends" you get all upset and start crying. To bad. At least the U.S. was smart enough not to become to dependent on the Middile East for Oil. We only get like 20% from them and get the rest from countries near us. So pretty much you guys are in a sh*t hole. Secondly, Israel could care less about what you Europeans say. Sure you can have the EU set up trade embargos but that dont mean nothing. When the Israelis get that $6 billion check from the U.S. along with the F-16's and Apache's they'll be laughing at you guys to the bank. The funny thing is that Israel could wipe out any attack made by the surrounding Arabs on their nation, as has been shown in the past. The last thing is that you Europeans are so swamped with Arabs in your countries that you guys are afraid to stand up for what is right. If been to Copahagen, Oslo, Frankfurt, and London. I felt like I was in the Middle East with all the Arabs running around. You guys are so afraid that they will over throw your government and cause riots that you guys fold your hands and nod you heads.
Ian van Dahl is chezze....:D |
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| NSA Berbalist |
| quote: | Originally posted by tranzformer
Thats an ignorant comment. Maybe you should keep up with current events and watch the news. All of the surrounding Arab countries (Lebannon, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Saudi Arabia,...etc even European countries like France, England, Norway ....) have been having protests about the military offensive that the Israelis have been taking. They all shout for the total destruction of Israel and the the rise of the Palistinian nation. So give me the name of ONE Arab nation that suports Israel and what they are doing. You can't now can you?? |
Actually cweb is absolutely right. Other Arab countries hate the Palis, otherwise they would help 'em. But Palis get shot trying to cross the border into Jordan, and Egyptians also keep 'em locked up in Gaza. The reason that other Arabs are joining in the renunciation of Israel is out of hatred and the necessity to present a unified "front" to the rest of the world, and also to have an excuse to get some licks in if an Arab offensive starts. Look back in history over the various wars Israelis fought with those countries, it always starts like that. The thing that I still don't understand is how the hell Israel managed to keep these fools at bay from the point that it declared it's independence. arabs are numerically superior and for the first two wars also had the superiority of arms. but any stiff resistance would sent 'em flying back to their homes screaming about the imagined atrocities commited by the Jews in those wars. Only Jordan managed to grab up a piece. Also Jordan was the only country to have a truce with Israel and even a sort of an alliance. I'd say they've shown some support, but to show more would be to go against their "brothers". Oh well that's my two cents, can we start killing these threadz? they have nothing to do with music |
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| tenor |
| quote: | | If Israel would give the Palestinians 80% of all the land, no Jerusalem, and no right of return, this would be comparable to a 50-50 compromise. |
Yoepus, old buddy, what would be the questions that the Israelis were compromising on, if such a deal was made? I think that is exactly what they want - which isnt a compromise in my book. |
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| a_adl |
read this maybe im late but read
listen here man!! look as u can see im egyptian and im proud to be arab and in our islamic religion we dont go out in the street kill ppl ok
and i think u know what ur military is doing very well haa coz i really got so pissed when u said u r afraid from looking into arabs eyes or anywhere in the street. we r not like that u or ur ppl took over these ppl's lands and they deserve to get them back and in our religion if u r fighting an enemy and u got killed u go straight to heaven as being honered for defending ur country thats y palestinas blow up themselves coz they r killing the enemy and saving their lands so i hope u understand what i said...cheers |
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| Proximus |
The Jews has all my respect in the world.
They are a strong people with great thinkers through their time, still, you guys really have a bunch of idiots in your government also. Those extremely right wing guys, those idiots from Likud that is? Please, they are like Usama, but not so obvious, just behind some fancy suits and fancy name.
I believe that there are Israelis that wants to end this , that had enough, that just cant take it anymore, not just from the palestinians, but also from their own government, their own government promise protection but still they attack and kill palestinians building more rage into them that sure as hell wont help the protection.
On the other hand we have the palestinians, a people with a STUPID leader, if I was Arafat, I would be happy with what I have and I would try to build up the country, not using every single penny to guns and c4 so i can send little girls blowing up themselves and making the situation even worse. The palestinians really need a stronger and better leader, a leader that believes in rational methods, in stopping their own people and building their own country and then start talking with israelis about the jerusalem situation.
The Israelis arrested a Palestinian officer, i cant remember his name, but that guy would be the best leader Palestine would have, since all this time he has always said, we must reach an understanding with the israelis and live side by side, this cant go on anymore.
God Damn it, Jews, Arabs, Christians, we are all brothers and sisters, we all come from Abraham. This war is stupid.
Ariel Sharon is stupid, Yassir Arafat is stupid and George W. Bush is extremely stupid.
Peace you guys, and all you in Israel, go for peace, I know its the harder way you guys but in the end thats the way that will win! I promise! |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by tenor
Yoepus, old buddy, what would be the questions that the Israelis were compromising on, if such a deal was made? I think that is exactly what they want - which isnt a compromise in my book. |
heya tenor...
As for the 50-50. You have to understasnd the claims;
Israel want all the land.
Palestinians want all the land.
Those are the extreme ideals; the moderate ideals are:
Israel wants a Jewish Independent and Secure State with the most land possible.
Palestinians want a palestinian independent state with the most land possible.
We can assume that they both have equal claims, altought in reality the Palestinian claim is much weaker since they gave up their opprotunities of country, and lost many wars for the land (and didn't get anything from the British in writing).
Now we must also consider the following; Israel is the stronger party (this usually changes 50-50 to 60-40). The Palestinians have almost no diplomatic playing cards (other then terrorism, and that arab brotherhood thing.. oh and now the european-brother thing i guess).
From here on you can understand that 80% of the land to the Palestinians, is more then 50%, and the extra 30% is used to supplement their demands over Jerusalem (which is just to hard to divide if you ever looked at the maps and plans) and the right of return.
Also when you limit it to 80% you can get rid of the settler issue in such a compromise, and create realistic defenseable borders for both nations.
Yoepus
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the fine line between sanity and madness gotten finer?
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| Proximus |
btw..
I believe that the Palestinians have themselves to blaim when they dont have a country, in the first place, israel offered them a very generous offer, 50 years ago, and palestinian response was, all jews should be drowned in the sea, again mr. ehud barak came with an OUTSTANDING offer and that mothering MORON Yassir Araffat says in front of National Tv that Barak can go to hell..
in the words of my father: Well mr. Arafat, receive it. This is all your doings, this is all your fault and by all rights he is right.
PEACE! |
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| cweb |
| quote: | Originally posted by tranzformer
Thats an ignorant comment. Maybe you should keep up with current events and watch the news. All of the surrounding Arab countries (Lebannon, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Saudi Arabia,...etc even European countries like France, England, Norway ....) have been having protests about the military offensive that the Israelis have been taking. They all shout for the total destruction of Israel and the the rise of the Palistinian nation. So give me the name of ONE Arab nation that suports Israel and what they are doing. You can't now can you?? |
Now THAT's the dumbest post I ve read in a while. Start learning reading before you even think about drop some lines here. Man that was weak! |
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| Dmatrox |
| quote: | Originally posted by NyKoN
i just wanted to tell all of u that ive been in London for the seventh time in my life a few days ago.
and just for ur knowledge- i was ass scared to walk in the streets.
i know some of you also doubt the israeli action against the palestinians in the west bank.
but with every moment that i saw someone with an islamic or arabic image i just felt the fear going through my body. some of u may call it racsim but, me and many of my friends who fell like this when they were abroad in the past few weeks, call it war shock.
i never thought until that weekend that this intifada will ever affect me but it did.
i was afraid that in some moment when i was in mcdonalds or at HMV someone will go in and blow himself up in the store.
so i ask u ppl to plz try and understand our actions and see from our side how we deal with this war bcz i dont just think- i know that u could have never deal with this kind of cruel terror.
today 13 elite soldiers of the IDF were killed by terrorists who killed thier own ppl when they blew up in the centre of Jenin refugee camp. |
I dont understand why the US is not supporting isreal since isreal's intentions are to 'root out terrorism' so they say. I think that both nations should be separated by the Great wall of china with neutral territory 50m on both sides of the wall. the UN should also take some ing initiative :mad: jesus those lazy bastards. |
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