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Fierce Gaza fighting sparks fears of civil war (pg. 9)
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
Geez great job twisting my words! You are right in line to get that promotion to professional Palestinian apologist ASAP. Don't let those pesky things called facts stand in your way!
All I was saying is that if Palestinian society could blow off some of the steam from its kettle it'd better for everyone. Right now the Palestinians don't have the option to migrate because Arab countries make it very, very hard for them. Because of their humanitarian situation you would think they would make it very very easy for them.
All I am saying is if they did make it easy for them things would be better. (Obviously Palestinians would remain, but it would make a two state solution much more viable).
Just to point out in contrast: Israel accepts Jews from across the world for refuge anytime they feel threatened.
Saving thousands from Ethopia, Iran, Iraq, and France ;) |
I assume you were replying to the post below the one you quoted?
Well, I've seen many posts of yours recently defending the Settlers, claiming they are not in fact religious fundamentalists but just normal people going about there normal life looking for some space to live in - well if that is the case, if I moved to another country I would have to live by their laws, so I assume you have no problem forcing the Settlers to live under Palestinian law? And if they have a problem with that, then they should move back to Israel/America no?
The thing is, I get the impression you have some kind of personal attachment to the Settlers. As if you agree with why they are there (and hence your silly arguments as to why they should be allowed to remain there, twisting the situation to make your arguments appeal to an unreligious, enlightened audience, whilst knowing full well they are there for fundamental religious reasons)
The Settlers are the single biggest impediment to peace in Palestine. They have no right to be where they are and should leave immediately - and the IDF should remove them by force if necessary of leave them to the mercy of the Palestinians. You don't owe them if you don't have the same beliefs as you. They are using their power in the Knesset to maintain the status quo, which means putting your country-folk in an unnecessarily dangerous situation. They want to annex the West Bank completely and failing that, they want to annex as much as possible and your government is powerless to do anything about it due to their strength in Parliament (and probably because of strong backing from extremists in America). They play on your emotions because you are Jewish and Israeli and they somehow want you to think you have some kind of attachment to them - well you don't.
You're a member of a Trance Music website! You go clubbing, you're at univeristy and have probably taken drugs, got blind drunk and slept with random girls. You are nothing like them! Just because of your religion and nationality means . Thats like saying everyone in the UK who was born to Muslim parents and has brown skin is an extremist like bin Laden. Well it aint true.
the Settlers man!
They bring no benefits to normal Israelis whatsoever. They are an evil bunch of rightwing thugs. They are detrimental to Israel's peace and security. Israel's army spends most of it's time protecting the Settlements and they have no strategic purpose any more whatsoever - they are there for one thing only - Eretz Israel - and if you do not agree with that then ffs oppose the Settlers |
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| Purple |
:eek:
OMG OMG some guy fired a missile inside ISRAEL!! No one was hurt but next time it might cause an elbow injury. They will nuke the out of Lebanon. Prevention is better than cure. |
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| NeoPhono |
| quote: | Originally posted by Purple
:eek:
OMG OMG some guy fired a missile inside ISRAEL!! No one was hurt but next time it might cause an elbow injury. They will nuke the out of Lebanon. Prevention is better than cure. |
You're right, people shooting rockets into populated centers is no cause for alarm...unless you live there. |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
As opposed to Hamas? :conf: |
well, yeah.
if EvilTree is gonna make the argument that supposedly (and i use that in the loosest of terms) legitimize what Hamas has done by syaing they were "legitamately elected" tehn it stands to reason that opposed to Hamas, the members/representatives of Fatah, in a Parliamentary Government, were as legitamately elected. thats all.
it's really not a right/left issue as far as EvilTree's argument is concerned. |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Purple
:eek:
OMG OMG some guy fired a missile inside ISRAEL!! No one was hurt but next time it might cause an elbow injury. They will nuke the out of Lebanon. Prevention is better than cure. |
uhh, in the last 6 years, 6000 missles have landed in one northern city alone.
i realize it means absolutely nothing to you because not only do you not live there but you wish that the people in that city all die, but you haven't the slightest idea what prevention or the cure is.
to you the cure is some English band with funny hair. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
to you the cure is some English band with funny hair. |
:D |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Well, I've seen many posts of yours recently defending the Settlers, claiming they are not in fact religious fundamentalists but just normal people going about there normal life looking for some space to live in - well if that is the case, if I moved to another country I would have to live by their laws, so I assume you have no problem forcing the Settlers to live under Palestinian law? And if they have a problem with that, then they should move back to Israel/America no?
The thing is, I get the impression you have some kind of personal attachment to the Settlers. As if you agree with why they are there (and hence your silly arguments as to why they should be allowed to remain there, twisting the situation to make your arguments appeal to an unreligious, enlightened audience, whilst knowing full well they are there for fundamental religious reasons)
The Settlers are the single biggest impediment to peace in Palestine. They have no right to be where they are and should leave immediately - and the IDF should remove them by force if necessary of leave them to the mercy of the Palestinians. You don't owe them if you don't have the same beliefs as you. They are using their power in the Knesset to maintain the status quo, which means putting your country-folk in an unnecessarily dangerous situation. They want to annex the West Bank completely and failing that, they want to annex as much as possible and your government is powerless to do anything about it due to their strength in Parliament (and probably because of strong backing from extremists in America). They play on your emotions because you are Jewish and Israeli and they somehow want you to think you have some kind of attachment to them - well you don't.
You're a member of a Trance Music website! You go clubbing, you're at univeristy and have probably taken drugs, got blind drunk and slept with random girls. You are nothing like them! Just because of your religion and nationality means . Thats like saying everyone in the UK who was born to Muslim parents and has brown skin is an extremist like bin Laden. Well it aint true.
the Settlers man!
They bring no benefits to normal Israelis whatsoever. They are an evil bunch of rightwing thugs. They are detrimental to Israel's peace and security. Israel's army spends most of it's time protecting the Settlements and they have no strategic purpose any more whatsoever - they are there for one thing only - Eretz Israel - and if you do not agree with that then ffs oppose the Settlers |
I don't know why you trying to lump me into some position I am not.
I don't support the religious settlers. I don't support settlers at all. But the term "settler" is very misleading.
How most people view "settler" is anyone living within the green line or within the pre-1967 armistice line. This is not to true, as I mentioned previously most are simply suburbanites. Most are secular, and most support a two state solution.
However what you see in the news is the right-wing settlers. And yes, fundamentally I believe they have as much right to be there as the Palestinians (provided the land was acquired in rightful ways) and if a two state solution would come to pass I believe they should be under Palestinian jurisdiction. Just as I believe Israeli Arabs have every right to live in Israel and them choosing to do so they are subject to Israeli jurisdiction.
The biggest obstacle to peace is the fact that the Palestinians are a big bunch of babies that hold their pride so high above their head that it blinds them to reality and compromise.
Not some settlers who will move out if the Israeli government tells them to move out (alla Gaza). And what backlash did Sharon get for that move at the time? None. Israeli populace sees settlers complete as a non-issue, and they see it that way because it is completely a non-issue.
Perhaps when the Palestinians grow up and learn to behave like adults we can get things going again. Until then, I don't see the point in wasting energy on this. |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
Just to point out in contrast: Israel accepts Jews from across the world for refuge anytime they feel threatened.
Saving thousands from Ethopia, Iran, Iraq, and France ;) |
The goals of Israel are different from goals of the Arab states - they dont really call on all Arabs to migrate into Holy Land, do they? Why would they, there's hardly any room or peace for current populations ... Plus Israel has lots of money, backing to do it. Plus any Jews who lives in a volatile "foreign" land that no longer wants him would want to move to a promised land that Jews have wanted for nearly 2 thousand years, a Jewish state. A great honour. In no way to compare the Arab plight and Palestinian suffering. Palestinians didnt want to leave their lands. But Israel was quite happy to annex and force people out of the lands they took for their own advantage and goals. Which dont include anything good for the Palestinian people. Some sort of a Palestinian banishment from the Holy Land, a lot like the expulsion of Jews nearly 2000 years ago, eh? |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Plus Israel has lots of money, backing to do it. |
the immediate Arab sphere around Israel has, easily, 10 times the capital to do it.
the point being, they don't. get it? |
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| Zild |
Israel should be destroyed but that isn't the point.
The Arabs all hate each other and left to their own devices will continue to fight each other until the end of times. They hate Israelis first then second in line are the Palestinians.
Sure you won't believe me but I think living with a student from Saudi Arabia for years and having many long talks with him about the state of things has given me a much clearer view than many of you will ever have. |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zild
Israel should be destroyed but that isn't the point.
The Arabs all hate each other and left to their own devices will continue to fight each other until the end of times. They hate Israelis first then second in line are the Palestinians.
Sure you won't believe me but I think living with a student from Saudi Arabia for years and having many long talks with him about the state of things has given me a much clearer view than many of you will ever have. |
so you sat around the crib and listened to some Arab kid for a few years and now you want to commit genocide...do us all a favor, consider suicide. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
so you sat around the crib and listened to some Arab kid for a few years and now you want to commit genocide...do us all a favor, consider suicide. |
Don't tell him that!! |
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