|
Russia plants flag under N Pole (pg. 4)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by Omega_M
your logic of using clean enegy is air tight, I must say. How did the two ships travel all the way up to the north pole ? I'm sure the captain and his men used these.
 |
I was talking about the mini-subs, not ships. But then again, how many ships elsewhere around the world are polluting the waters all the time, where the mentioning of that? For even more ridiculous reasons ... |
|
|
| hardcore trancer |
Iam just wondering if we are going to see more shows like this by both Canada and Russia in the near future again?
To me this all seems like a symbolic thing for now but could it become more then just that? |
|
|
| Magnetonium |
It was more than just symbolic. It was a mission sent to gather data to see if Lomonosov ridge is an extension of the Siberian plate - because if that's the case, then Russia can claim nearly 1.5 million square kilometres as its land / shelf / whatever you want to call it. And that area has all kinds of riches buried in it ... so dont expect Canadians / Americans / Danes / Norway to let go of it easily. |
|
|
| Omega_M |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
I was talking about the mini-subs, not ships. But then again, how many ships elsewhere around the world are polluting the waters all the time, where the mentioning of that? For even more ridiculous reasons ... |
You missed the point. The mini-subs were transported by the 2 ships upto the north pole. So you have to take that factor into account. ;) Besides, energy consumption and pollution calculations cannot just be made at the product end. The 2 subs are non-polluting I agree. But how much energy was expended developing the super specialized subs ? How many engineers spent how many hours designing the vehicle and testing prototypes before developing the final product ? How much specialized manufacturing was required ? how much energy was wasted developing these machines ? All in all, how much did the submersible project contribute to the global pollution ? It is difficult to answer that question. And obviously, the answer is not "negligible" |
|
|
| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by Omega_M
You missed the point. The mini-subs were transported by the 2 ships upto the north pole. So you have to take that factor into account. ;) Besides, energy consumption and pollution calculations cannot just be made at the product end. The 2 subs are non-polluting I agree. But how much energy was expended developing the super specialized subs ? How many engineers spent how many hours designing the vehicle and testing prototypes before developing the final product ? How much specialized manufacturing was required ? how much energy was wasted developing these machines ? All in all, how much did the submersible project contribute to the global pollution ? It is difficult to answer that question. And obviously, the answer is not "negligible". |
Yeah, and that comes from you? Last time I checked, US/Canada uses up more energy and creates more garbage than anyone else. Ok, bud? Just let this go, its not worth it. |
|
|
| Omega_M |
I was including this paragraph in my earlier post, but I'll just paste it after your reply :
The reasons for polluting the earth that appear ridiculous to you, need not appear ridiculous to others. The north pole mission has been ridiculed by many states. You obviously give it a lot of importance. Different people see the same event from different perspectives ;)
Besides, it is hard do define "waste". Developed countries expend more energy than others and hence cause more pollution. But they are not just sitting there burning oil in open air. People's lifestyle and industrialization are both responsible for the increased expenditure. I'm not justifying this act, but merely stating that what you may see as "waste" may not be seen as "waste" by someone living in US/Canada. |
|
|
| Magnetonium |
Yes, but claims that Russia is polluting North Pole, forcefully taking over land, breaking international laws, etc. are unfounded and are quite pathetic. The same countries that accuse Russia of these things do things that are far worse ... which brings up the double standards issue once again. Russia is again painted as the enemy ... while all Russia did was send a non-government funded non-military scientific probe to do some research. Big friggin deal. |
|
|
| Magnetonium |
Plus, the mission of this magnitude had to have polluted the waters in some aspects of it ... but pollution of waters didnt stop others from doing similar journeys. We dont have the technology or the capability right now to sail the frozen Artic waters in a cayak and then dive in a swimsuit to a depth of 4.5 km and successfully take samples without getting crushed to a pulp. Everything's based on oil, gas, etc. etc. and Russians are not the only ones to blame here. Blame yourselves as well for polluting environment on a day-to-day basis. |
|
|
| Omega_M |
| It is clear as daylight that this was a political stunt meant for domestic and international consumption. Russia has no legal standing over its claims atm. Two members of Russia’s lower house of Parliament were in the vehicle. Truly a non-government venture meant for private "research" |
|
|
| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by Omega_M
Even a child will tell you that this was a political stunt for domestic and international consumption. Russia has no legal standing over its claims atm. Two members of Russia’s lower house of Parliament were in the vehicle. Truly a non-government venture meant for private "research" |
... paid by private investors. But yes, Parliament officials were on one of the ships, wow, so I guess its government sanctioned then. This wasnt a stunt, its to secure and to prove claims to boundaries ... any country would do it. Canada had a fight recently with Denmark over one stupid island between Greenland and Baffin Land or whatever ... straining political relations. Later it turned out that the small island is actually in jurisdiction of Denmark. Well, nothing new here then. |
|
|
| Magnetonium |
The funny thing about that little island between Canada and Denmark is that it was completely useless ... no natural resources, and not even strategic location, and the island was so small ... But Canadian government even sent out a military ship to flex its muscle and pressure. They went as far as straining relations with Denmark to try to wrestle control over it.
Thats how it is. Why would countries who rightfully view lands as theirs just let go easily? Russia has not formally presented a claim for that large Arctic area to big part of its territory - only speculations until the mission. Thats why it sent out a mission to gather proof of this (and with German scientists on board as well). Private sponsors and prominent non-military scientists aboard. With peaceful and scientific goals in mind. Much better than some other countries who would send military warships to claim land. |
|
|
| biznology |
| russias attempt at securing northern oil deposits, since they wont get Iran's despite lots of bitching and infighting. russia never does something for 'research' purposes. well not since the USSR and even then, not so much| |
|
|
|
|
